New York Times columnist David Brooks and MSNBC host Jonathan Capehart were greatly disturbed on Friday’s PBS News Hour at Texas’s mid-decade redistricting efforts, calling them part of the “corrosion of democracy” and “cheating by legal means,” and insist this is something worse than standard gerrymandering.
Host Geoff Bennett began with Brooks, “Democrats say this amounts to cheating. What do you make of this effort by Democrats to flee the state? Is this a bold defense of democratic rights or is this a — just a real provocative escalation?”
Brooks dismissed the fleeing as “a shtick” that has a poor track record of success, but on the main issue claimed, “The thing here is the corrosion of democracy. And this is how slow it is. And maybe this is why the streets aren't erupting in America, because there's always been gerrymandering, but usually there was some sense of shame. Like, we're not going to totally rig the game completely. And so even in Texas there were Democratic seats. Even in California there were Republican seats.”
Brooks lamented, “Now the shame is gone. And so what we're seeing is people just becoming nakedly partisan. And it’s people deciding — not even pretending we're going to put democracy above party. We're going to put party above everything. And that is what's happening and, I guess, about to happen in California as well.”
Brooks concluded by further mourning:
It's funny how much of our system required some sense of you would feel ashamed of betraying your democracy. You would have thought they would have rigged all the seats already, so there'd be no seats to get through redistricting. But there was some sense of shame. But now it's gone. And when you destroy the norms, that people feel responsible to something higher than party, when you destroy that norm, it turns out there's still a lot left to destroy.
Bennett then turned to Capehart, “We spoke to a Republican Congressman, Mike Lawler, on this program this past week. He's a Republican in New York. He opposes this redistricting and he says that it will result in mutually assured destruction of Democrats and Republicans both move forward. Is he right?”
Capehart began by telling Lawler to complain to President Trump about it, “This mutually assured destruction that Congressman Lawler talks about was initiated by the Republican president of the United States. And so I don't think it's a shtick that Texas — that state Democrats have left the state in an effort to deny them a quorum. Sure, this — the special session, they will call another one.”
He also insisted that is problem is not redistricting per se, just the timing, “And eventually this sort of cheating by legal means that the Texas governor is trying to accomplish — this is not a shtick. This is Democrats standing up for small-D democratic values. If this were at the 10-year mark of doing redistricting, this would be a whole different conversation. This is mid-decade that they're doing. It's cheating by legal means.”
Capehart then had some praise for California Gov. Gavin Newsom, “From the very beginning when Texas was making noises about this that he was going to do something about it, well, now he's going to do something about it. And I am all here for it. Democrats cannot stand by while Republicans pervert the Constitution, pervert the will of the people, prevent the people from choosing their own elected officials.”
He concluded by trying to argue, “I know that both parties are guilty when it comes to gerrymandering, coming up with these crazy ketchup-like districts. But this — what is happening in Texas at the behest of the president of the United States is a whole other thing.”
Is it? Politicians are emotional beings, but pundits should be more logical. The thing no one in the media wants to talk about is that California is currently as gerrymandered as Texas would be if the new map is passed.
Here is a transcript for the August 8 show:
PBS News Hour
8/8/2025
7:48 PM ET
GEOFF BENNETT: David, at the center of this, as you well know, is this effort to stall this mid-decade redistricting plan aimed at giving Republicans five additional seats in Congress. Democrats say this amounts to cheating. What do you make of this effort by Democrats to flee the state? Is this a bold defense of democratic rights or is this a — just a real provocative escalation?
DAVID BROOKS: Well, the fleeing is just a shtick they have done before and hasn't actually worked too well in the past.
The thing here is the corrosion of democracy. And this is how slow it is. And maybe this is why the streets aren't erupting in America, because there's always been gerrymandering, but usually there was some sense of shame. Like, we're not going to totally rig the game completely. And so even in Texas there were Democratic seats. Even in California there were Republican seats.
And — but now the shame is gone. And so what we're seeing is people just becoming nakedly partisan. And it’s people deciding — not even pretending we're going to put democracy above party. We're going to put party above everything. And that is what's happening and, I guess, about to happen in California as well.
And so it's funny how much of our system required some sense of you would feel ashamed of betraying your democracy. You would have thought they would have rigged all the seats already, so there'd be no seats to get through redistricting. But there was some sense of shame. But now it's gone.
And when you destroy the norms, that people feel responsible to something higher than party, when you destroy that norm, it turns out there's still a lot left to destroy.
BENNETT: And, Jonathan, to David's point, we learned tonight that Governor Newsom is going to put this question on the ballot in November to basically redistrict and redraw those maps in California. We spoke to a Republican Congressman, Mike Lawler, on this program this past week. He's a Republican in New York. He opposes this redistricting and he says that it will result in mutually assured destruction of Democrats and Republicans both move forward. Is he right?
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Can we just go back to why we're having this conversation? Because the president of the United States said to Texas, redistrict so he can get five more seats, five more seats so that Republicans can maintain control of the House of Representatives.
This mutually assured destruction that Congressman Lawler talks about was initiated by the Republican president of the United States. And so I don't think it's a shtick that Texas — that state Democrats have left the state in an effort to deny them a quorum. Sure, this — the special session, they will call another one.
And eventually this sort of cheating by legal means that the Texas governor is trying to accomplish — this is not a shtick. This is Democrats standing up for small-D democratic values. If this were at the 10-year mark of doing redistricting, this would be a whole different conversation. This is mid-decade that they're doing. It's cheating by legal means.
And I think that Governor Newsom from the very beginning when Texas was making noises about this that he was going to do something about it, well, now he's going to do something about it. And I am all here for it. Democrats cannot stand by while Republicans pervert the Constitution, pervert the will of the people, prevent the people from choosing their own elected officials.
And I know that both parties are guilty when it comes to gerrymandering, coming up with these crazy ketchup-like districts. But this — what is happening in Texas at the behest of the president of the United States is a whole other thing.
