During Wednesday’s House Judiciary Committee hearing, Congressman Jim Jordan (R-OH) grilled FBI Director Christopher Wray on a memo out of the Richmond, Virginia field office that called for the bureau to insert spies into the local Catholic Church to monitor “radical traditionalist Catholics.” Instead of being appalled that anyone at the FBI would think that was acceptable, the cast of CNN’s News Central and Inside Politics were appalled that Jordan would bring it up, even defending the idea.
Despite Wray explaining he shot the idea down the moment he saw the memo, CNN felt compelled to defend it anyway. Morning News Central co-host Sara Sidner teed up former Comey FBI official Josh Campbell to explain why spying on the Catholic Church in Richmond was needed:
I want to bring in Josh Campbell. You know very well how the FBI operates. And talk about this issue of what they said was a memo that was written by an FBI agent in Richmond, which suggested and they quote “radical traditionalist Catholic ideology.” And there was language that it seemed they were saying they might put some folks from the FBI in there to try to figure out what was going on. But that memo was taken down very quickly. Can you give us some sense of how big of a deal, if you will, would one FBI agent's memo be to the entire bureau?
“Agents and analysts are responsible for knowing threats in their domain. They’re responsible to ensure if there's a threat that they identify it, that they counter it,” Campbell defended the field agent’s grotesque idea.
According to Campbell, the agent in question was just trying to stop the next Oklahoma City Bombing or the next 9/11:
We know since the Oklahoma City Bombing, we know since 9/11, the FBI has been engaged in what's called looking for trip wires, people who are in a particular place that might be able to reach out to the FBI to say, “Look, I see something that's concerning here.”
One case in particular after the Oklahoma City bombing, the FBI wanted to build contacts in places that sell fertilizer and precursors to explosives. And so, it appears that the memo – that the FBI Director is not defending, he's saying that he was appalled by what he read there – it appeared that this was an effort by an agent or analyst in the office to set up an ability to recruit sources in the domestic violence extremist space.
Campbell went on to whine that attempts at oversight by Republicans and efforts to hold the bureau accountable were just “political effort[s] to discredit the FBI” and put “doubt in the psyche of the American public.”
In the next hour, during Inside Politics, host Dana Bash wanted the media panel to comment on the FBI memo. But following soundbites of Jordan pressing Wray while holding the memo in his hand, senior political analyst Nia-Malika Henderson tried to suggest the whole thing was made up by Republicans:
You know, listen, I mean, this is part of essentially a set of two Americas. Right? The Republican version of the FBI is that it is a weaponized agency, that they are going after Catholics, they are going after parents who are complaining at school boards.
And you see as a result of that people who are campaigning for president saying they are going to defund the FBI, that they are going to fire all the officers and sort of build it from the ground up. This is a result, as you said before, of sort of Donald Trump's America weaponizing the idea that the FBI is out to get average Americans, particularly going after Republicans and conservatives.
This was immediately followed up by Axios senior contributor, Margaret Talev decrying how bringing this up would damage the FBI’s credibility during a terrorist attack. “God forbid there be an actual like domestic terror event or something where the credibility of the FBI is important for all Americans across partisan lines to have trust in the institution. I mean, that's the real risk here,” she kvetched.
CNN’s objection to exposing an FBI memo calling for spying on Catholics was made possible because of lucrative sponsorships from LeafFilter and Ring. Their contact information is linked.
The transcripts are below, click "expand" to read:
CNN News Central
July 12, 2023
11:52:40 a.m. Eastern(…)
SARA SIDNER: I want to bring in Josh Campbell. You know very well how the FBI operates. And talk about this issue of what they said was a memo that was written by an FBI agent in Richmond, which suggested and they quote “radical traditionalist Catholic ideology.” And there was language that it seemed they were saying they might put some folks from the FBI in there to try to figure out what was going on. But that memo was taken down very quickly.
Can you give us some sense of how big of a deal, if you will, would one FBI agent's memo be to the entire bureau?
JOSH CAMPBELL: Well so, there's still a lot we don't know about that specific memo. But the way this process works is that field offices around the country – you have 56 FBI field offices. Agents and analysts are responsible for knowing threats in their domain. They’re responsible to ensure if there's a threat that they identify it, that they counter it.
We know since the Oklahoma City Bombing, we know since 9/11, the FBI has been engaged in what's called looking for trip wires, people who are in a particular place that might be able to reach out to the FBI to say, “Look, I see something that's concerning here.”
One case in particular after the Oklahoma City bombing, the FBI wanted to build contacts in places that sell fertilizer and precursors to explosives. And so, it appears that the memo – that the FBI Director is not defending, he's saying that he was appalled by what he read there – it appeared that this was an effort by an agent or analyst in the office to set up an ability to recruit sources in the domestic violence extremist space. So, a lot we still don't know, but again the FBI Director saying, “Look, this is not something I support.”
If you look at the larger impact of this hearing that we're seeing today, I mean, I talked to people in the FBI all the time. And they are fearful that the same attacks that they saw in 2016 and obviously in 2020, it's going to be even worse coming up in the 2024 presidential election. Because there are things like that memo that you mentioned. You know, actual real instances where the FBI has done something questionable or pure wrongdoing as indicated by inspectors general and the like.
A lot of this is a political effort to discredit the FBI so that the results of their work specifically as it relates to Donald Trump, that raises doubt in the psyche of the American public. One thing we’ve been hearing throughout this very contentious hearing is Republicans saying, “American sentiment of the FBI is in the tank.” That is true. You look at polling data, the trust of the American people in the FBI has been on the down slope, largely that’s along political lines.
The question is you have to ask yourself: “why?” What these Republicans are saying when they describe the FBI as some liberal cabal deep state out to get Donald Trump. That is resonating with people and that could be the reason why the sentiment is the way it is. It doesn't mean it's truthful.
KATIE BOLDUAN: Josh Campbell, great perspective, as always.
(…)
Inside Politics
12:2239 p.m. EasternREP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): Are you saying priests should be informants inside the church, Director?
CHISTOPHER WRAY (FBI director): We do not recruit, open, or operate confidential human sources to infiltrate, target, report on religious organization.
JORDAN: But that’s not what this said. It sounds like you were trying to do it in Richmond, Virginia.
WRAY: No, sir.
[Cuts back to live]
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON: You know, listen, I mean, this is part of essentially a set of two Americas. Right? The Republican version of the FBI is that it is a weaponized agency, that they are going after Catholics, they are going after parent who is are complaining at school boards.
And you see as a result of that people who are campaigning for president saying they are going to defund the FBI, that they are going to fire all the officers and sort of build it from the ground up. This is a result, as you said before, of sort of Donald Trump's America weaponizing the idea that the FBI is out to get average Americans, particularly going after Republicans and conservatives.
[Crosstalk’
MARGARET TALEV: But God forbid there – God forbid there be an actual like domestic terror event or something where the credibility of the FBI is important for all Americans across partisan lines have trust in the institution. I mean, that's the real risk here. The risk is that it's going to be more difficult to are recruit people, to join and stay in the FBI, that it's going to be more difficult for Americans to have confidence and faith in the FBI's work, when there really is an urgent matter that involves the protection of all Americans.
Matt Gaetz, you played the clip talking about how Wray has less credibility than Hoover. I mean, that's probably, percentagewise technically true for a couple reasons. Every institution in America from the press to the Supreme Court to the military is under stress. But also Republicans are actively campaigning to undermine the credibility of the FBI.
DANA BASH: Absolutely. And look, I just want to say that it is the job of the United States Congress to have oversight. And there are questions. I mean, Wray admitted that there was a mistake made in the Richmond office when they deal with the Catholic Church. But the question is, kind of is everything at an 11? To quote Spinal Tap. Which I know you love to do Jeff Zeleny
JEFF ZELENY: Absolutely.
BASH: All right. Everybody standby.
