GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy traveled over to CNN This Morning on Wednesday to discuss his campaign. During the part of the interview about his recent speech at the NRA convention, host Don Lemon told Ramaswamy that it was “insulting” he would dare to say that black Americans enjoy equal rights.
Lemon spent the entire gun portion of the interview being greatly upset, mostly because he was determined to beat up a straw man. During his NRA speech, Ramaswamy portrayed gun ownership as a civil right that Democrats tried to suppress after the Civil War, which led Lemon to declare, “I don't really see what one has to do with the other, especially consider-- and using the Civil War to talk about black Americans. That war was not fought for black people to have guns.”
Ramaswamy never claimed the Civil War was fought “for black people to have guns,” he claimed it was fought for black people to enjoy civil rights, which includes the right to bear arms.
As Ramaswamy started to explain himself, Lemon repeated himself, “Okay, but that wasn’t fought for black people to have guns. I think—”
Again, Ramaswamy started to defend himself, “black people did not get to enjoy the other freedoms until their Second Amendment rights were secured and I think that that's one of the lessons—”
Lemon was not happy with that explanation and started to shift the conversation away from guns to about race more generally, “But black people still aren’t allowed to enjoy the freedoms.”
After Ramaswamy told Lemon he disagreed and was “doing a disservice to our country” with those remarks, Lemon essentially told Ramaswamy to shut up, “when you are in black skin and you live in this country then you can disagree with me.”
Ramaswamy then called Lemon out for trying to use race to silence his critics and argued “Black Americans… absolutely have equal rights in this country.”
Lemon replied, “I think it’s insulting to black people, it’s insulting to me as an African-American. I don’t want to sit here and argue with you because it’s infuriating for you to put those things together. It’s not right, your telling of history is wrong.”
After Ramaswamy asked what he got wrong, Lemon returned to the straw man, “you’re making people think the Civil War was fought for black people—only for black people to get guns and for black people to have—”
Later in the argument, Lemon burned a second straw man, accusing Ramaswamy of ignorning Reconstruction and the Civil Rights Movement. Ramaswamy never discounted those things, CNN even played a clip of him invoking Lyndon Johnson, but narrowing in on gun rights, Ramaswamy portrayed the NRA as a civil rights organization, “And you know how they got it? They got their Second Amendment rights, and they actually got the NRA played a big role in that, but today Don—”
Clearly not paying attention, Lemon shot back, “The NRA did not play a big role in that. That is a lie. That’s a lie. That’s not—the NRA did not play a big role in that.”
Going back again to race generally, Ramaswamy added “The part that I find insulting is when you say today, black Americans don't have those rights after we have gone through Civil Rights Revolution in this country—”
Not happy with that, Lemon claimed it was Ramaswamy who was being insulting, “you are here sitting here telling an African-American about the rights and what you find insulting about the way I lived the skin I live in every day and I know the freedoms that black and white—that black people don’t have in this country and that black people do have.”
After Ramaswamy again called him out for trying to silence people, Lemon absurdly claimed he wasn’t, “I’m not saying you should express your views; but I think it’s insulting you’re sitting here—you’re sitting here, whatever ethnicity you are, splaining to me about what it is like to be black in America. I’m sorry.”
That led to Ramaswamy being the most agitated he got during the interview, “Whatever ethnicity I am? I’ll tell you what I am, I’m an Indian-American, I’m proud of it, but I think we should have this debate. Black, white, doesn’t matter on the content of the ideas.”
If the partisan labels on that question were reversed, it would be considered racist which is not surprising for the host who is always putting his foot in his mouth.
This segment was sponsored by Subaru.
Here is a transcript for the April 19 show:
CNN This Morning
4/19/2023
8:01 PM ET
DON LEMON: I don't really see what one has to do with the other, especially consider-- and using the Civil War to talk about black Americans. That war was not fought for black people to have guns. That's--that's---that's not—
VIVEK RAMASWAMY: That war was fought for black people to have freedoms in this country, actually, that's why the Civil War was fought and the sad part about it--
LEMON: Okay, but that wasn’t fought for black people to have guns. I think—
RAMASWAMY: Actually, you want to know, a funny fact is black people did not get to enjoy the other freedoms until their Second Amendment rights were secured and I think that that's one of the lessons—
LEMON: But black people still aren’t allowed to enjoy the freedoms—
RAMASWAMY: I disagree with you on that, Don. I disagree with that and I think you're doing a disservice to our country, by failing to recognize the fact that we have equality before the law in this country.
LEMON: Well, okay, when you are in black skin and you live in this country then you can disagree with me, but we're not--you mentioned there are three different shades of--
RAMASWAMY: I disagree, Don, I think we have to be able to talk about these issues in the open regardless of the color of our skin. Black Americans today, to say, compare that to 1865 and 1964, absolutely have equal rights in this country.
LEMON: I think for you to compare it to 1865 and 1964 is actually, I think it’s insulting to black people, it’s insulting to me as an African-American. I don’t want to sit here and argue with you because it’s infuriating for you to put those things together. It’s not right, your telling of history is wrong.
RAMASWAMY: What part of the history was wrong, Don? What part of the history was wrong?
LEMON: The Civil War was fought, you’re making people think the Civil War was fought for black people—only for black people to get guns and for black people to have—
RAMASWAMY: The Civil War was fought for Black people in this country to get freedoms, a noble mission—
LEMON: Yes, you’re right.
RAMASWAMY: And I think that even after-- even after we succeeded, we had to actually secure those freedoms.
LEMON: To reduce it, in a speech at the NRA, to say you're making people think— are you trying to say that black people-- to get guns-- that was the reason that you're there at the NRA? That was the reason for the Civil War, I think that’s reductive.
RAMASWAMY: It is a fact. It’s not reductive, Don.
LEMON: And I think it’s insulting. There were a whole plethora of reasons for the Civil War.
RAMASWAMY: Look, with due respect, I find your explanation reductive and actually insulting, including to black Americans to say that black people today compared to 1964, 1865 haven't made progress in part because of the freedoms we secured and the Second Amendment was part of the culture—
LEMON: Hang on, please. I cannot keep a thought if you guys are talking in my ear, so hang on one second, so to say that that black people—say what you said again.
RAMASWAMY: Black people secured their freedoms after the Civil War, it is a historical fact, Don, just study it, only after their Second Amendment rights were secured. That’s a fact.
LEMON: They were not secured-- their freedoms after the Civil War, that not-- you are discounting Reconstruction, you’re discounting a whole host of things that happened after the Civil War when it comes to African-Americans, including the whole reason that the Civil Rights Movement happens is because black people did not secure their freedoms after the Civil War, and that things turned around. People tried to change the freedoms that were supposed to have after the Civil War in Reconstruction.
RAMASWAMY: And you know how they got it? They got their Second Amendment rights, and they actually got the NRA played a big role in that, but today Don—
LEMON: The NRA did not play a big role in that. That is a lie. That’s a lie. That’s not—the NRA did not play a big role in that.
RAMASWAMY: Oh absolutely, they trained black Americans how to use firearms. This is just a historical fact.
LEMON: It’s not a historical fact. Just because you say it’s a historical fact—
RAMASWAMY: The part that I find insulting is when you say today, black Americans don't have those rights after we have gone through Civil Rights Revolution in this country—
LEMON: The fact that I’ve said-- that you are here sitting here telling an African-American about the rights and what you find insulting about the way I lived the skin I live in every day and I know the freedoms that black and white—that black people don’t have in this country and that black people do have.
RAMASWAMY: Well, here's where you and I have a different point of view. I think we should be able to express our views regardless of the color of our skin. We should have this debate without me regarding you as a black man, but me regarding you as a fellow citizen. That's what I think we should see
LEMON: I’m not saying you should express your views; but I think it’s insulting you’re sitting here—you’re sitting here, whatever ethnicity you are, splaining to me about what it is like to be black in America. I’m sorry.
RAMASWAMY: Whatever ethnicity I am? I’ll tell you what I am, I’m an Indian-American, I’m proud of it, but I think we should have this debate. Black, white, doesn’t matter on the content of the ideas.
