On Saturday's The Amanpour Hour, CNN host Christiane Amanpour gave a sympathetic forum to left-wing film maker Errol Morris and MSNBC reporter Jacob Soboroff to promote their documentary attacking the GOP's opposition to illegal immigration, with Morris even declaring that then-President Donald Trump's family separation policy from 2018 was "unmistakably racist."
Soboroff also made his most recent of repeated claims that then-Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen lied about the policy in spite of evidence to the contrary, some of which can actually be seen in the documentary itself.
Amanpour presented the segment by calling the 2018 separations a "dark stain on American history" and showed a clip of the film's trailer before introducing her guests. After Soboroff fretted over what Trump promises to do in his second term, Morris tore into Republicans with the race card:
I'm endlessly fascinated by self-deception -- the question of, "What did these people think that they were doing?" To me, the policies are unmistakably racist. The campaign -- the Republican campaign for President, to me, was also unmistakably racist. And yet it sells. It has an appeal to a vast number of voters, myself not included. And how did this all happen in America?
In her followup, Amanpour brought up Soboroff's claims of Nielsen lying as she read from a Tweet the Homeland Security sent in June 2018:
So in the documentary, it shows that in June of 2018 Kirstjen Nielsen -- she was the, you know, Department of Homeland Security -- she tweeted: "We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period." Jacob, was that true or not true back then?
As Soboroff started to answer, Morris claimed Nielsen's Tweet was a "lie" as he jumped back in:
SOBOROFF: No, that was not true. And, you know, self-deception might be a generous description of what she was doing there. They knew exactly what they were doing. And what Errol Morris lays out in almost a forensic examination --
MORRIS: You could also called it -- you could also call it a lie.
As previously documented by NewsBusters, the Tweet in question was just one of several Tweets that were sent out together that clarified that the family separations would generally only happen for those who crossed the border illegally and would not apply to those who legally went to ports of entry.
There are even clips in Separated which show that Soboroff was told to his face by Nielsen in May 2018 that families would be separated if they crossed the border illegally:
JACOB SOBOROFF: While we were out there, the Attorney General announced this new policy. Anybody who crosses into the United States illegally is going to be prosecuted, and children are going to be separated from their family members. With so many people coming into the United States looking to seek asylum, is that the right strategy?
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: So, to be clear -- let's be clear about that, we will enforce the law. We are not exempting any class. So if you're part of a family and you break the law, you will be incarcerated just as adults are every day in this country in every community. When they break the law, they're separated from their family. It's no different.
And, in the film, Soboroff can be seen recalling that he sneered, "Who is this f**cking guy?" the first time he saw Trump advisor Stephen Miller giving a speech in 2016.
Transcripts follow:
CNN's The Amanpour Hour
January 11, 2025
11:34 a.m. Eastern
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Welcome back. More now on the looming showdown over immigration under Trump 2.0 with mass deportations this time involving potentially whole families. Family separation, you'll recall, was part of Trump's first-term policy of zero tolerance -- seeing children possibly removed from their parents at the border. And this cruel and dark stain on American history is at the heart of Separated. It's a new film by the Oscar-winning director Errol Morris that's based on journalist Jacob Soboroff's best-selling book. Here's a look at the trailer.
LEE GELERNT, ACLU: Do I call this child abuse? Do I call it torture?
CAPTAIN JONATHAN WHITE, EX-EMPLOYEE OF OFFICE OF REFUGEE RESETTLEMENT: Separation was the purpose -- prosecution was the tool.
GELERNT: It's not over. Five years later, we are still trying to reunite up to 1,000 children. There's really nothing to stop them.
WHITE: It troubles me profoundly that it could happen again.
AMANPOUR: They both join me to discuss this timely film and what Trump's return could mean for families. Errol Morris and Jacob Soboroff, welcome to our program. Jacob, can I just start with you in terms of being a news reporter? This new interventions or predicted interventions by the new administration -- what is the status right now of the border, the plans, people, crossings? What are you finding in your reporting right now?
JACOB SOBOROFF: What I learned, Christiane, in covering the family separation policy of the last Trump administration is that when the incoming Trump administration says they're going to do something, believe them. And in 2016, they said they were going to deliberately separate thousands of children from their parents at the border, and they did just that -- what a Republican-appointed judge called one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country.
And I reported on the floor of the Republican National Convention during this presidential election, and I stood, you know, feet away as thousands of people held up those signs saying "Mass Deportation Now." It's a part of the policy platform not just at the Republican National Committee but of the Trump campaign and now of the incoming Trump administration. And what is a mass deportation policy? It's family separation by another name.
AMANPOUR: Where does this fit, Errol, in the sort of compendium of where you, you know, focus your lens and focus your words?
ERROL MORRIS, FILM MAKER: I'm endlessly fascinated by self-deception -- the question of, "What did these people think that they were doing?" To me, the policies are unmistakably racist. The campaign -- the Republican campaign for President, to me, was also unmistakably racist. And yet it sells. It has an appeal to a vast number of voters, myself not included. And how did this all happen in America?
AMANPOUR: But the interesting thing, Jacob, also was, to follow on from what Errol just said, is sort of the culture of deception, including amongst the officials who you were covering at the time. So in the documentary, it shows that in June of 2018 Kirstjen Nielsen -- she was the, you know, Department of Homeland Security -- she tweeted: "We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period." Jacob, was that true or not true back then?
SOBOROFF: No, that was not true. And, you know, self-deception might be a generous description of what she was doing there. They knew exactly what they were doing. And what Errol Morris lays out in almost a forensic examination --
MORRIS: You could also called it -- you could also call it a lie.
AMANPOUR: Could I ask you both another question? Because you do bring it up, and some of the officials talk about it. The administration openly or, amongst themselves, use this policy because they believe that it was a deterrent. And that was their philosophy. That was their political imperative. So why, Errol --
MORRIS: See, I don't believe it.
AMANPOUR: Okay.
MORRIS: I actually don't believe -- they might have sold it as a deterrent, but I think its main purpose was a dog whistle to the base to their followers to show those followers, "Look how mean we can be -- look how cruel we can be -- look how tough we can be with immigrants." To me, that was the main purpose of it all.
(...)
Separated documentary, shown on MSNBC
December 7, 2024
9:06 p.m. Eastern
JACOB SOBOROFF: The first exposure I ever had to what became family separation was, I was in a Colorado ballroom covering the 2016 campaign, and a guy that was up there speaking on behalf of Donald Trump was screaming. And I just said, "Who is this f**king guy?" Turns out it was Stephen Miller."
(...)
10:04 p.m. Eastern
(dated May 2018)
SOBOROFF: The Dateline border hour was ordered because it was what Trump was talking about. After finishing the story, Katie Waldman -- probably the junior most press deputy for Kirstjen Nielsen -- she later became Katie Miller -- Katie invites us to do a sit-down with the Secretary.
(...)
What I didn't know was that in the days before I sat down with Kirstjen Nielsen, Donald Trump absolutely berated her that she wasn't moving fast enough on these aggressive deterrence policies, nor that she signed this decision memo to make family separations a Department of Homeland Security policy.
ERROL MORRIS: So, at that point, the memo is signed. Her name is on the memo.
(memo dated May 4, 2018, is shown on screen)
SOBOROFF: Yup. She signed it even though she got a pair of contradictory memos because attached to the, what's know as the "decision memo," was also a memo that warned her it could violate the Constitution.
MORRIS: So where does this meeting occur?
SOBOROFF: At the Ronald Reagan Building in Washington, D.C.
(...)
SOBOROFF: While we were out there, the Attorney General announced this new policy. Anybody who crosses into the United States illegally is going to be prosecuted, and children are going to be separated from their family members. With so many people coming into the United States looking to seek asylum, is that the right strategy?
KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: So, to be clear -- let's be clear about that, we will enforce the law. We are not exempting any class. So if you're part of a family and you break the law, you will be incarcerated just as adults are every day in this country in every community. When they break the law, they're separated from their family. It's no different.
