CNN NewsNight host Abby Phillip tried without success on Tuesday to get Democratic Rep. Jared Moskowitz to agree with Sen. Bernie Sanders that the time has come to cut aid to Israel. Later in the show she also failed to get Manhattan Institute podcaster Coleman Hughes to agree that now former Harvard President Claudine Gay is a victim of racism or, at the very least, partisan politics.
Phillip wondered what so radical about Sanders’s stance, “I mean, conditioning U.S. aid to other countries is not a new concept. I mean, are you arguing that this is a military aid to Israel no matter what it does in any particular conflict?”
Moskowitz responded by declaring that anybody who actually supports a two-state solution should want to see Hamas defeated and wondered “what kind of message do you think Iran is picking up right now watching Bernie Sanders talking about conditioning aid to Israel?”
After he claimed that all the misery in Gaza is the fault of Hamas, Phillip interrupted, “Hamas is certainly responsible for the attack on October 7th. I think one of the things that Senator Sanders is pointing to, and he mentions this in his statement, he also mentions Netanyahu, but he talks about how the war is being carried out. It's not necessarily about Netanyahu specifically.”
She further wondered, “CNN and other outlets have reported about the IDF's use of 2,000-pound bombs that produce really extraordinary death tolls, the fact that so much of Gaza is uninhabitable right now. People are basically starving to death, according to international agencies. What is the United States supposed to do to reduce those kinds of outcomes other than using the main tool that it has, which is military aid?”
After Moskowitz declared the quickest way for the war to end is for Hamas to surrender, Phillip tried another tactic, “There are some in Netanyahu's government, including the national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir who tweeted that the Palestinians should leave Gaza and some in your party have called that a call for ethnic cleansing. I mean, these are some of the kinds of things that people are seeing and saying is there another motive here.”
Moskowitz condemned the “despicable” comments, but noted that Israel currently has a unity government and every party, including his own, has people who say “things that wildly crazy.”
A few minutes later, Phillip seemed surprised that anyone could believe that Gay didn’t resign because of racism or partisan politics, asking Hughes “So, you don't think there was anything about this that had to do with the fact that she was a black woman from the people who were claiming this as a victory against DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion?”
Hughes stood firm, “I don't think it did. And you know what, even if it did, that doesn't justify it. If you or I did this, or even any white scholar, it would be career-ending to have 50 examples of plagiarism. And it has to be because how can you be the one upholding Harvard's integrity when you yourself have failed? It's as if the commissioner of the Major League Baseball or the NBA had a lifelong history of steroid use and was now the person in charge of kicking other people out for steroid use. It's completely untenable.”
Phillip then turned to former Harvard Law School Student Body Co-President Mussab Ali who agreed with her, noting that the Harvard Corporation’s investigation of the plagiarism allegations that basically cleared her of wrongdoing.
Turning back to Hughes, Phillip wondered about that, suggesting that conservatives focused on the plagiarism as a fallback because the blowback from her Congressional testimony was insufficient to get her to lose her job, “I mean, why do you think? And, obviously, I should say, I mean, there was obviously the anti-Semitism issue, her testimony before Congress, which put her in the hot water to begin with, but after Harvard moved past that internally, this was the thing.”
Hughes, again, wasn’t buying it, “Yes, this was the thing. And, well, my question about the internal Harvard review that you seem to think was a very rigorous process is how did they only find, what, four or five examples of it when they were 50, almost 50 to find?”
It is a good question, maybe a journalist at CNN could ask someone at Harvard that very question.
Here is a transcript for the January 2 show:
CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip
1/2/2024
10:10 PM ET
ABBY PHILLIP: I mean, conditioning U.S. aid to other countries is not a new concept. I mean, are you arguing that this is a military aid to Israel no matter what it does in any particular conflict?
JARED MOSKOWITZ: Well, look, I have faith in President Biden who has put immense pressure, and Secretary Blinken who will be going back to the region, who will continue to guide the Israelis on, quite frankly, what the next steps are. Because I think that is very important. I think we have to bring the Arab world and the Abraham Accord nations to figure out, you know, how we can rebuild Gaza and get back to talking about the two-state solution.
But if we start conditioning the aid, military aid that Israel needs to finish the mission against Hamas, who started this war when they ended the original ceasefire, who still has hostages, that is going to send the wrong message. I mean, what kind of message do you think Iran is picking up right now watching Bernie Sanders talking about conditioning aid to Israel?
So, this is a very dangerous conversation. And I think it will have repercussions beyond, you know, the current day-to-day situation in Gaza, which is absolutely horrific. No one wants innocent Palestinians to be dying. But remember, Hamas is the one responsible, not Netanyahu.
PHILLIP: But to that-- Hamas is certainly responsible for the attack on October 7th. I think one of the things that Senator Sanders is pointing to, and he mentions this in his statement, he also mentions Netanyahu, but he talks about how the war is being carried out. It's not necessarily about Netanyahu specifically.
CNN and other outlets have reported about the IDF's use of 2,000-pound bombs that produce really extraordinary death tolls, the fact that so much of Gaza is uninhabitable right now. People are basically starving to death, according to international agencies.
What is the United States supposed to do to reduce those kinds of outcomes other than using the main tool that it has, which is military aid?
MOSKOWITZ: Yeah, I mean, Abby, it's absolutely horrific. And what we need to happen is we need the war to end as fast as possible. We need the hostages to be released. We need Hamas to surrender. The war is over if that happens. And Israel needs to get out of Gaza, quite frankly. That's the quickest way for this to happen, is for the hostages to be released and for Hamas to surrender. No one wants this war -- go ahead.
PHILLIP: There are some in Netanyahu's government, including the national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir who tweeted that the Palestinians should leave Gaza and some in your party have called that a call for ethnic cleansing. I mean, these are some of the kinds of things that people are seeing and saying is there another motive here.MOSKOWITZ: Well, look, those comments are despicable, okay? They have no place in this conversation. But, you know, look, in a party, in a large party, you have people that say crazy things from time to time, or those are people in my party.
PHILLIP: He's part of Netanyahu's government. He's part of the government.
MOSKOWITZ: No, listen, but they have a unity government right now, which means all of the parties right now are part of the government. And so, look, I have people that I serve in Congress with. They're part of the government that are in my own party that say things that are wildly crazy, I think, sometimes. And then there're folks across the aisle, which every day reach a new low.
And so those comments are despicable. We got to make sure that we rebuild Gaza. We have to make sure that we have a two-state solution. And we have to finally use this unfortunate incident to try to bring stability to the world and piggyback off of the Abraham Accords and continue to expand that by bringing Saudi Arabia in.
But we have to make sure, we have to make sure that when this is over, that this doesn't become a worse situation. Israel has to recognize that they are not getting any of Gaza. Gaza is going to be part of a Palestinian state and the sooner that happens, the better.
PHILLIP: Congressman Jared Moskowitz, thank you very much for joining us tonight.
MOSKOWITZ: Thank you.
…
10:21 PM ET
PHILLIP: So, you don't think there was anything about this that had to do with the fact that she was a black woman—
COLEMAN HUGHES: No.
PHILLIP: -- from the people who were claiming this as a victory against DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion?
HUGHES: I don't think it did. And you know what, even if it did, that doesn't justify it. If you or I did this, or even any white scholar, it would be career-ending to have 50 examples of plagiarism. And it has to be because how can you be the one upholding Harvard's integrity when you yourself have failed? It's as if the commissioner of the Major League Baseball or the NBA had a lifelong history of steroid use and was now the person in charge of kicking other people out for steroid use. It's completely untenable.PHILLIP: What's your view on whether or not this idea that the race of the person accused is not important here?
MUSSAB ALI: So, I think it's definitely a point here that really we have to look at. Because, you know, the example you gave for the president of Stanford, you know, when he came on, he had seven months of an investigation. There was an internal investigation. Kirkland Ellis was hired to actually go through and do a thorough view of the analysis of all of his academic work to go back and find that there was very serious allegations of plagiarism.
Harvard Corporation did an investigation. They could have done internal investigations. It took several months. Why is it that it took seven weeks to decide that this was too much, whereas the president of Stanford got seven months for similar allegations?
HUGHES: Well, look –
PHILLIP: I mean, why do you think? And, obviously, I should say, I mean, there was obviously the anti-Semitism issue, her testimony before Congress, which put her in the hot water to begin with, but after Harvard moved past that internally, this was the thing.
HUGHES: Yes, this was the thing. And, well, my question about the internal Harvard review that you seem to think was a very rigorous process is how did they only find, what, four or five examples of it when they were 50, almost 50 to find?
And plagiarism it's not like a, it's not like true crime where there's a million perspectives on it. You kind of either lifted the paragraph or you didn't.
