On Wednesday’s PBS News Hour, co-host Amna Nawaz tried emotional blackmail to stop spending cuts – any kind of spending cut – in an interview with Rep. Jodey Arrington (R-Texas), chairman of the House Budget Committee.
After challenging Arrington on Medicaid spending in the just-passed House GOP budget framework (“Is it possible for you to guarantee that none of the 70 million people who rely on Medicaid are going to have their benefits cut? Can you make that guarantee?”) Nawaz tried to personalize the argument by putting Arrington on the spot regarding potential federal job loss in his district, resulting in these repetitive exchanges, in which Nawaz asked the same question no less than five times.
Amna Nawaz: I do want to ask you about some of the federal worker firings that we have seen from Elon Musk's DOGE team. The latest figures that I saw show some 130,000 federal employees who live in the state of Texas, in your district about 8,000 or so. Do you know if any of those federal workers have lost their jobs as a result of this team's cuts?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I don't know any personally who have, but I can tell you…
Amna Nawaz: Do you know of any in your district?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Do I know of any who've been cut?
Amna Nawaz: Yes, sir, anyone who's lost any federal employees in your district who have lost their jobs as a result of the DOGE team's cuts?
Arrington tried to take a broader view of government fraud and waste, but Nawaz kept twisting the knife.
Nawaz: If I may, among the DOGE team's listings of cuts, they do list a DHS office closure in Abilene, Texas, which is in your district, for an estimated savings of $340,000. I'm unsure how many people were cut there. But are you concerned that if hundreds of people in your district lose their jobs, it will impact your community?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I'm concerned that our federal budget went from $4.5 trillion before COVID to $7 trillion. I'm concerned that, during the Biden administration, $8 trillion was added to the national debt, that we're borrowing $2 trillion.
Nawaz: But are you concerned about people losing their jobs in your district?
Needless to say, this is not the sort of personalized hostile treatment that Democratic House members receive on tax-funded television.
On the same subject that same night, PBS’s White House reporter Laura Barron-Lopez strove to dismiss a whopping $2 billion of savings as barely a cup of coffee. It’s a secret weapon of the big spenders: Spend enough tax money, and even real money looks paltry, relatively speaking.
Barron-Lopez: So, as Jessica noted there, so far, there appears to be no evidence of fraud, despite Elon Musk claims of it. And she also added that, if you did distribute some of the -- that $2 billion or so in savings across taxpayers in America, which is what Elon Musk has said he would like to do, it would basically come to $2.42 per person, so potentially not enough for a cup of coffee in some cities.
It's fascinating that Musk was previously criticized by some leftists for not ending world hunger (yes, really) with the $44 billion he used to buy Twitter, but $2 billion in savings is dismissed.
This segment was brought to you in part by American Cruise Lines.
A transcript is available, click “Expand.”
PBS News Hour
2/26/25
7:18:59 p.m. (ET)
Amna Nawaz: When the House passed the Republican budget framework last night, it was an important step towards implementing President Trump's agenda. The House budget plan includes $4.5 trillion in tax cuts, spending cuts totaling $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion, and will add an estimated $3 trillion to the national debt over the next 10 years. Congressman Jodey Arrington of Texas chairs the Budget Committee, and he joins me now. Chairman Arrington, welcome to the "News Hour." Thanks for joining us.
Rep. Jodey Arrington (R-TX): Thank you, Amna. Good to be with you.
Amna Nawaz: So, as you know, the bill passed on a 217-to-215 vote. You had one Republican joining Democrats to vote against it. Is it fair to say now that the real work begins of trying to figure out exactly where you're going to get those $2 trillion in cuts?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Yes, I think you're right. I mean, we had to lay out a framework that I think was fiscally responsible, pro-growth. It makes adjustments for supporting the tax cuts, while reining in the wasteful spending to offset along — offset those cuts along with growth — or revenue, rather, from growth, which is a conservative 2.6 percent annual average growth rate, which is lower than we had in the Trump and Biden administrations. But that will bring another $2.6 trillion in. And so, all together, it's a balanced budget resolution, but, as you mentioned, the real work happens as the policies are developed at the committee level, and it's designed that way to be kind of a bottom-up approach, and then we will, of course, have to conference with the Senate.
Amna Nawaz: As you know, there's been a lot of concern about cuts to Medicaid. The mandate that you have set for the Energy and Commerce Committee that oversees Medicaid is for them to cut $880 billion. The largest pot of money that they oversee is Medicare, which you have said you will not touch. So, how do you see hitting that $880 billion figure without touching Medicaid?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Well, we're going to make sure we actually eliminate the waste that exists in the federal government, not just in the Medicaid program, but across the federal government. The Government Accountability Office estimates just within 70 programs in the federal government a $2.7 trillion in waste, fraud, and abuse. And then fraud, government-wide, they say on the higher end is $5 trillion. So we have to put the program integrity measures in place to make sure those who are legally eligible are those receiving the benefits that the taxpayers and lawmakers intended. But, for example, if you just review for eligibility not once but twice a year, going back to the Trump administration policies, you will actually not only prevent the fraudulent spending of tax dollars, but you will save $160 billion that you can put towards reducing the deficit and making not just Medicaid, but all of these programs sustainable today that are not sustainable. So, program integrity, state accountability, personal responsibility. SNAP has requirements for able-bodied adults who are able to work to work to receive the benefit. And we think that it's responsible to do that across the government. Medicaid doesn't have that. For example, these are some of the things that will be meted out at the committee level.
Amna Nawaz: Chairman, if I may, just to double-check the math here, that $3 trillion you cited there, that is the cumulative of estimated overpayments in fraud from GAO dating back to 2003. So that's not quite apples to apples here. You mentioned the $160 billion that would come from reversing some Biden era policies. But the national improper pay rate that I saw, HHS estimates on fraud only totals about $31 billion. I'm just pointing these out to show nowhere are you near $880 billion. So, again, where are you seeing math that says you can get to that number without touching Medicaid?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Yes, actually, let me correct that statement. The Government Accountability Office, $2.7 trillion in improper payments, that's a 10-year number. That is a 10-year number, not since 2003. That's going forward. In fact, there's $50 billion in Medicaid. It's over $500 billion over the 10-year window. So when we say we want to save $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion in reducing wasteful spending, that's over the 10-year budget window. So it is apples to apples. I would also suggest — and there are outside groups that have measured this — one that comes to mind is NumbersUSA. They say that we're spending $150 billion for social services for people who are in this country illegally, about $9,000 per illegal immigrant. That's more than we spend on U.S. citizens who are the most vulnerable among us and eligible for Medicaid. It's also more than we spend for our veterans on military benefits. So there's a lot of cleaning up, a lot of waste and fraud. And there's just a lot of inefficiencies.
Amna Nawaz: So, if I may, Chairman…
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Yes. Sure.
Amna Nawaz: And I apologize. I know our time is limited. Is it possible for you to guarantee that none of the 70 million people who rely on Medicaid are going to have their benefits cut? Can you make that guarantee?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I can tell you this. These programs are not sustainable for the most vulnerable people. I can also tell you that the Obamacare expansion population, they get a 90 percent federal match. And the blind disabled, the sickest and poorest among us, they get 65 percent on average. So, the entire health system is oriented around giving better care and better access to able-bodied Obamacare expansion populations. So there's a lot of ways to make it work better and make it more efficiently.
Amna Nawaz: Chairman, I will just point out, I'm not hearing a guarantee in there, but I think our conversation on this will continue.
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Sure.
Amna Nawaz: I do want to ask you about some of the federal worker firings that we have seen from Elon Musk's DOGE team. The latest figures that I saw show some 130,000 federal employees who live in the state of Texas, in your district about 8,000 or so. Do you know if any of those federal workers have lost their jobs as a result of this team's cuts?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I don't know any personally who have, but I can tell you…
Amna Nawaz: Do you know of any in your district?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Do I know of any who've been cut?
Amna Nawaz: Yes, sir, anyone who's lost — any federal employees in your district who have lost their jobs as a result of the DOGE team's cuts?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I don't know of any, but there may be people who have had their jobs terminated. And I can tell you, after having worked in the administration of President Bush, being in the administration, there's a lot of unnecessary jobs. There's a lot of waste. We had about half the work force not even going to work the last four or five years. So, look, where there is value added, where there are people who are being productive and advancing the federal government's mission and serving the American people, I don't think there's a problem there, but I think we have a lot of bloat and a lot of waste. So I support the efforts that are being taken under President Trump by Elon Musk and by his Cabinet officials.
Amna Nawaz: If I may, among the DOGE team's listings of cuts, they do list a DHS office closure in Abilene, Texas, which is in your district, for an estimated savings of $340,000. I'm unsure how many people were cut there. But are you concerned that if hundreds of people in your district lose their jobs, it will impact your community?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I'm concerned that our federal budget went from $4.5 trillion before COVID to $7 trillion. I'm concerned that, during the Biden administration, $8 trillion was added to the national debt, that we're borrowing $2 trillion.
Amna Nawaz: But are you concerned about people losing their jobs in your district?
Rep. Jodey Arrington: I'm concerned about bankrupting the country, and I'm also trusting this president to make sure that where we need the human resources, where they are productive and can justify the value added to advancing the federal government's mission, that will happen. But we're long overdue for an audit from top to bottom, and we need to make sure that the taxpayers are getting a return on their investment and that we're securing their money. And that doesn't happen in this town enough, so I support what the president and Elon Musk are doing 100 percent.
Amna Nawaz: That is the House Budget chairman, Jodey Arrington, joining us tonight.
Mr. Chairman, thank you for your time. We appreciate it.
Rep. Jodey Arrington: Thank you, Amna. Appreciate — you too. Bye-bye.
