On MSNBC's The Saturday Show, MSNBC host Jonathan Capehart fretted and fearmongered that President Donald Trump's drive to put more limits on birthright citizenship could mean that blacks who are descended from slaves might also be stripped of citizenship.
At 6:04 p.m. Eastern, Capehart first brought up the issue as he claimed that President Trump "wants to take us back to the 19th century" and misleadingly claimed that Trump's executive order is one that is "ending birthright citizenship." The MSNBC host did not specify that it would primarily be illegal aliens and only some classes of legal immigrants that are affected. Here's Capehart:
Then, there's Trump's rolling back the clock on civil rights laws which we'll get into in the next block. But the President wants to take us back to the 19th century with his executive order ending birthright citizenship, which is enshrined in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution ratified in 1868, the first sentence of which clearly states, and I quote: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
He then noted that the 14th Amendment, which was passed after the Civil War, made former slaves into American citizens: "Remember the 14th Amendment established African Americans as full U.S. citizens, overturning a previous Supreme Court ruling that said they were not."
(On both TV and radio, Mark Levin has energetically argued that the 14th Amendment does not guarantee birthright citizenship, harping on the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction of" as the crucial phrase.)
Later in the show, as he was with podcaster Molly Jong-Fast and MSNBC contributor and public radio host Maria Hinojosa, Jong-Fast brought up the issue, and claimed that Trump wants to "reverse some of Reconstruction," calling it "insane." Capehart soon returned to the issue of birthright citizenship being linked to slavery and fearmongered about it:
But, to your point about the 14th Amendment and snatching back birthright citizenship, there's a reason why I pointed out the fact that this was necessary because the Supreme Court said my ancestors weren't citizens -- that we were three-fifths of a person and all of that stuff. So if you take away birthright citizenship, then there are lots of questions here -- not just for children born to -- born to immigrants and born to people who might not happen to be citizens. But what then does that mean for me?
Nothing.
Additionally, without the context that the order by President Lyndon Johnson that President Trump rescinded had included affirmative action, and that rescinding the order would not legalize racial discrimination, which is illegal because there is actually a law against it, Jong-Fast further fretted: "The Lyndon Johnson stuff where he repealed the order that said you can't discriminate -- that is shocking to me. I mean, this stuff, you know, really saying the quiet part out loud in a way that, even if you knew Project 2025, I still think -- I was shocked."
Hinojosa and Capehart ended up trying to reassure themselves that they would not obsess about President Trump during his second term and let him get in their heads. They're already failing.
Transcript follows:
MSNBC's The Saturday Show
January 25, 2025
6:04 p.m. Eastern
JONATHAN CAPEHART: Then, there's Trump's rolling back the clock on civil rights laws which we'll get into in the next block. But the President wants to take us back to the 19th century with his executive order ending birthright citizenship, which is enshrined in the 14th Amendment of the Constitution ratified in 1868, the first sentence of which clearly states, and I quote: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."
Remember the 14th Amendment established African Americans as full U.S. citizens, overturning a previous Supreme Court ruling that said they were not. On Thursday, a Federal district judge in Seattle heard arguments in a case brought by four states -- Washington state, Arizona, Oregon, and Illinois -- that challenged Trump's executive order to end birthright citizenship. The judge, who was appointed by Ronald Reagan, temporarily blocked the order, saying, "I've been on the bench for over four decades. I can't remember another case where the question presented is as clear as this one. This is a blatantly unconstitutional order."
(...)
6:42 p.m.
MOLLY JONG-FAST, HOST OF FAST POLITICS PODCAST: So, the war on the 14th Amendment -- I knew that it -- I understand where it comes from, right? It's the war on civil rights, right? That's what it is. It's broadly trying to reverse some of Reconstruction, if you can believe it, which is insane. I was still surprised. It's, I mean, you know, the, supposedly, these members of the Supreme Court, even his boosters (Sam) Alito and (Clarence) Thomas, his fan club, they are supposed textualists -- I'll be interested to see how they square the circle of supporting their guy while pretending they care about the text of the Constitution. So that, I think, is something to watch.
The Lyndon Johnson stuff where he repealed the order that said you can't discriminate -- that is shocking to me. I mean, this stuff, you know, really saying the quiet part out loud in a way that, even if you knew Project 2025, I still think -- I was shocked. And, look, the thing I'm so struck by is the playbook here is to undo all the Democratic Presidents from like Johnson to Carter, right? Like the war on FEMA ... that's a Carter thing, FEMA. And the war on the Department of Education, that's a Carter thing. You know, he's just sort of going back and undoing every Democratic President he can think of, and I think Carter has hit the spot right now because he just passed on and was in the news cycle.
CAPEHART: But it's not just every Democratic President. Richard -- some of the things Richard Nixon did, I mean, and to your point -- and we're actually running out of time, so I might filibuster here. But, to your point about the 14th Amendment and snatching back birthright citizenship, there's a reason why I pointed out the fact that this was necessary because the Supreme Court said my ancestors weren't citizens -- that we were three-fifths of a person and all of that stuff. So if you take away birthright citizenship, then there are lots of questions here -- not just for children born to -- born to immigrants and born to people who might not happen to be citizens. But what then does that mean for me?
JONG-FAST: I mean, for any of us.
CAPEHART: What does that mean for any of us?
MARIA HINOJOSA: I have to say that, you know, as you know, I was born in Mexico. I'm a proud Mexican immigrant. When you see this come up and you're just like, "Okay, no, it's okay, Maria -- obviously, you came with a green card -- you are a citizen," but my emotional reaction was like (flinches.) "You know, is this going to affect my own kids?"
JONG-FAST: But that's the goal. I mean, that is the goal. And that has always been the goal of Trumpism -- is the chaos, is the instability, is the anxiety, is the undoing.
HINOJOSA: And I'm not going to let this man and his politics and his fear and his flooding the zone -- I'm not going to let it take me down. Which is hard to kind of pair with understanding the amount of human suffering that is going on there, but I'm not going to let him take me down
CAPEHART: Right. And I think -- and you are not -- you are not alone in that because, even though it is our job to pay attention to this stuff, it's not going to occupy -- not going to occupy my thoughts kind of like he almost did four years ago.
