The reason so-called “Dreamers” were ever a topic of discussion in American politics was that their legal status was in question due to how they arrived. That’s a fact. But CNN host Chris “Fredo” Cuomo didn’t want to hear it. When former Virginia Attorney General and acting Deputy Homeland Security Secretary Ken Cuccinelli (R) acknowledged that Dreamers were “illegal aliens” under the law during Thursday’s PrimeTime, Cuomo freaked out, and attempted (and failed) to shout down his guest.
Towards the end of the segment and after Cuccinelli had schooled him on how congressional Democrats had abandoned DACA negotiations with President Trump, Cuomo pointed asked: “Do you believe that Dreamers are Americans?”
“No. They're illegal aliens,” Cuccinelli accurately responded. Fredo immediately became enraged and audibly banged his hand on the desk (click “expand”):
CUOMO [banging hand on desk]: And that is the problem. And that's the problem. And that's why you're not going to get a deal.
CUCCINELLI: Well, DACA Stands for deferred action.
CUOMO: Yeah. Yeah.
CUCCINELLI: DACA Stands for deferred action. The action deferred is deportation.
CUOMO: Yeah, I know.
CUCCINELLI: You don’t deport Americans.
In his defense, Cuccinelli noted that he was “just being a lawyer here.” “No, you’re not being a lawyer. You're not being a lawyer,” Cuomo sneered.
Cuccinelli began to argue that former President Obama and Democrats refused to change the law when they had complete control of the government and were “using these folks for political leverage,” but was shouted at. “Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah,” Cuomo declared like a total adult, speaking over his guest.
Shockingly, Cuomo argued that Democratic manipulation of Dreamers was done out of “humanity”:
CUOMO: And why? And why Ken? Why did they use it? Because it is a question of humanity. It's not about the law. It is about humanity.
CUCCINELLI: Using them is about humanity?!
After Cuomo had talked about how Dreamers had essentially lived the American experience since they were very young, Cuccinelli explained that was why the President and Republicans were willing to work on giving them legal status. But Cuomo was all about creating divisions:
CUCCINELLI: That is why everybody is willing to come the table. That is why the President is willing to come to the table. He said it too.
CUOMO: You just called them illegal aliens. That’s why you’re not getting it done.
While Cuomo went back to shouting about Dreamers not being illegal aliens, Cuccinelli pointed out: “The entire [Supreme] Court acknowledged that today.” And even though his guest had just explained that Republicans wanted to give Dreamers legal status, Cuomo accused Cuccinelli of relying on “just some legal term that is pejorative and try to make them an other.”
Attempting to deploy reason, Cuccinelli explained: “They grew up in America. They grew up in America but the whole legal issue here is that they are not in fact American citizens. That is why there is this case.” But it didn’t work.
After Cuomo ended the interview by offering Cuccinelli 20 minutes to make the case for Trump’s plan if he proposed something on DACA, Fredo claimed he doesn’t “test” guests with “animus” (which was a lie) and argued that the legal term “illegal alien” needed to go away.
This is CNN.
The transcript is below, click "expand" to read:
CNN’s Cuomo PrimeTime
June 18, 2020
9:44:29 p.m. Eastern(…)
CHRIS CUOMO: Let me ask you something. Do you believe that Dreamers are Americans?
KEN CUCCINELLI: No. They're illegal aliens.
CUOMO [banging hand on desk]: And that is the problem. And that's the problem. And that's why you're not going to get a deal.
CUCCINELLI: Well, DACA Stands for deferred action.
CUOMO: Yeah. Yeah.
CUCCINELLI: DACA Stands for deferred action. The action deferred is deportation.
CUOMO: Yeah, I know.
CUCCINELLI: You don’t deport Americans.
CUOMO: Yeah, and you know why they deferred it, Ken?
CUCCINELLI: I’m just being a lawyer here.
CUOMO: No, you’re not being a lawyer. You're not being a lawyer. Because--
CUCCINELLI: Yes. Political leverage. Barack Obama and the Democrats have been using these folks for political leverage.
CUOMO: Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
CUCCINELLI: Otherwise they would have solved the problem when they had the votes.
CUOMO: And why? And why Ken? Why did they use it? Because it is a question of humanity. It's not about the law. It is about humanity.
CUCCINELLI: Using them is about humanity?!
CUOMO: And if you want to use the law, remember this line, professor, equity abhors a forfeiture. These people have been here their entire lives, they go to school, they have jobs, they've paid taxes, they’ve never known any other country, and you’re going to say they’re not Americans. Because they’re American in every way except something they had nothing to do with, which is how they came into the country.
CUCCINELLI: Chris, that’s why -- That is why everybody is willing to come the table. That is why the President is willing to come to the table. He said it too.
CUOMO: You just called them illegal aliens. That’s why you’re not getting it done.
CUCCINELLI: I did that. Because that is what they are. You asked me and that is the answer to the question.
CUOMO: It’s not what they are.
CUCCINELLI: The entire court acknowledged that today. It is. It is.
CUOMO: They are Americans in every way. They’re not just some legal term that is pejorative and try to make them an other. They are just like you and me.
CUCCINELLI: They grew up in America. They grew up in America but the whole legal issue here is that they are not in fact American citizens. That is why there is this case.
CUOMO [speaking over his guest]: This is about politics. Like you’ve said before, it’s never been about the law. It’s never been about the law.
CUCCINELLI [under Cuomo speaking over him]: Yes, that’s right and it started all the way back when the Democrats had 60 votes and could have solved it.
CUOMO [speaking over his guest]: It’s about doing the right thing. And if the President wants to, I will cover it every day. If he comes for DACA alone, Ken – This is what I'll say. You are welcome on here all the time. You know that. I love having you on the show.
CUCCINELLI: I appreciate at.
CUOMO: If they're going to do DACA. And that is what he wants to do and that is the proposal, you come on and I'll give you 20 minutes to make your case on what you guys want to do on DACA, and why Congress should take it up. I got to jump right now, but I wish you the best for Father’s Day. And thank you to make the case
CUCCINELLI: Good to be with you, Chris.
CUOMO: God bless and be well.
Listen. Here we test but I don't do it with animus, because it gets you nowhere. But the Dreamers are Americans in every way except the piece of paper. And the word “illegal alien,” I know you can find it in the law, all right. But we also know what it describes. Lots of words haven used in the law. We've changed them over time. And this is one that needs to change as well.
