Carol Costello surprisingly lumped in Senator Bernie Sanders with Donald Trump on Tuesday's CNN Newsroom: "Donald Trump is suggesting mass deportations and big tariffs to fix the economy. Bernie Sanders is offering things like free college tuition and huge tax increases. These things are extreme. Yet...they're being accepted by many voters." Costello later played up that "there's no nuance in their messages. It's black and white. Look, we're going to do this, and it's going to have this effect." [video below]
The anchor brought on Republican strategist Ana Navarro and The Daily Beast's John Avlon for a panel discussion on the 2016 campaign. She first underlined that "Yes, a buck a gallon for gas is possible. The final 2015 jobs report was pretty spectacular. So why do Democrats, as The Washington Post points out, sound as gloomy as Republicans?" She continued by playing a clip from a 2008 John McCain presidential campaign ad that zeroed in on the high gasoline prices at the time.
Costello first asked Navarro, "How might Republicans react to gas that's a dollar a gallon?" The pundit answered, in part, by emphasizing that "the American people are feeling gloomy. Despite what the numbers may be, there's more of a story here. You've got three-fourths of the American people who think the country is going the wrong direction." The CNN journalist responded, "I think Ana is right, John, but that puts Democrats in a really weird place, doesn't it?" As you might expect, Avlon was tougher on Republicans/conservatives than Democrats/liberals in his reply:
JOHN AVLON: ...[A]nxiety about the future is, to some extent, as American as apple pie. I mean, you know, the future is inherently uncertain. And what Ana's speaking to is the fact the middle class has had a wage squeeze for over two decades right now. That's a real problem. When Democrats talk about it, they talk about inequality. When Republicans talk about it, they don't have any really good answers, so they end up defaulting to, sort of, tax-cut catechism.
...Democrats need to figure out how to both say that the economy has gotten better under President Obama — it has — while saying, guess what? We haven't reached a fundamentally-strong place for the middle class. And that's where a lot of the anxiety comes from.
So, I don't say it's gloom. It's about being able to say, we've improved; but we haven't gotten there yet. People can do that. The American people can comprehend those two messages.
This answer prompted Costello to remark, "I don't know if people are in to nuance this time around, John. I really don't." She continued with her "extreme" label of Trump and Sanders.
Later in the segment, when the anchor asserted that "there's no nuance in their messages," Avlon replied that "that's the essence of populism. And what Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders both share is that, with the polarization of the two parties, you've got an increase in populism — conservative populism and liberal populism of an old-school kind."
The full transcript of the Ana Navarro/John Avlon segment from the January 12, 2016 edition of CNN Newsroom:
CAROL COSTELLO: So yes, a buck a gallon for gas is possible. The final 2015 jobs report was pretty spectacular. So why do Democrats, as The Washington Post points out, sound as gloomy as Republicans?
With me now to talk about that and more: CNN political analyst and editor-in-chief of The Daily Beast, John Avlon. I'm also joined by CNN political commentator Ana Navarro. She also supports Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. Welcome to both of you.
[CNN Graphic: "Race For 2016: States Welcome Plunging Prices At The Pump"]
JOHN AVLON: Good morning, Carol.
ANA NAVARRO: Good morning, Carol—
COSTELLO: Good morning! So I want to take you back to July of 2008. The price of gas was $4.11 a gallon. John McCain was running for president. Remember, he blamed Barack Obama for that, who was also running for president. Sarah Palin came up with her signature line, 'Drill, baby, drill.' And then, there was this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over, from 2008 John McCain campaign ad): $4, $5 — no end in sight — because some in Washington are still saying no to drilling in America; no to independence from foreign oil. Who can you thank for rising prices at the pump? One man knows we must now drill more in America, and rescue our family budgets. Don't 'hope' for more energy.
COSTELLO: Okay. So you get the drift there. So Ana, how might — how might Republicans react to gas that's a dollar a gallon?
NAVARRO: You know, I think you're seeing both parties — politicians and — you know, the folks running, reacting the same — the same way — which is, having the — the pulse of the American people — that the American people are feeling gloomy. Despite what the numbers may be, there's more of a story here. You've got three-fourths of the American people who think the country is going the wrong direction. You've got the majority of American parents, who believe their children are not going to do as well as they did. You have the majority of American children, who believe they're not going to do as well as their parents did. So, I think what you're hearing on the campaign trail, on both sides of the aisle, is that reflection of gloominess from the people running.
COSTELLO: And I think Ana is right, John—
AVLON: Yeah—
COSTELLO: But — but that puts Democrats in a really weird place, doesn't it?
AVLON: Well, it — it does, to some extent, but let's have a couple reality checks here. First of all, that prediction ad from 2008 was flat-out wrong. So, that's a big fail. Second of all, anxiety about the future is, to some extent, as American as apple pie. I mean, you know, the future is inherently uncertain. And what Ana's speaking to is the fact the middle class has had a wage squeeze for over two decades right now. That's a real problem. When Democrats talk about it, they talk about inequality. When Republicans talk about it, they don't have any really good answers, so they end up defaulting to, sort of, tax-cut catechism.
Now, Speaker Paul Ryan takes poverty seriously. At the Kemp Forum this past weekend, there were some really interesting conversations on the Republican side of the aisle. But Democrats need to figure out how to both say that the economy has gotten better under President Obama — it has — while saying, guess what? We haven't reached a fundamentally-strong place for the middle class. And that's where a lot of the anxiety comes from.
So, I don't say it's gloom. It's about being able to say, we've improved; but we haven't gotten there yet. People can do that. The American people can comprehend those two messages.
[CNN Graphic: "2016 Dems Focus On Income Inequality"]
COSTELLO: (laughs) I don't know if people are in to nuance this time around, John. I really don't. I would like to think so, but I don't—
AVLON: Really? What would make you think that, Carol?
COSTELLO: Because — well, let me give you an example. (Avlon laughs) So, Donald Trump is suggesting mass deportations and big tariffs to fix the economy. Bernie Sanders is offering things like free college tuition and huge tax increases. These things are extreme. Yet Ana, they're being accepted by many voters. Why do you think that is?
NAVARRO: And you know what's — what's a fascinating phenomenon that's been coming out in the last few days, is that there are people who attend Donald Trump rallies or Bernie Sanders rallies; and say, when they are interviewed by reporters, that their second choice is either Donald Trump or Bernie Sanders. So, people who are supporting Bernie Sanders tell you my second choice is Donald Trump. People who are supporting Donald Trump say, my second choice is Bernie Sanders — because I think this outsider voice that is banging the bars and saying, we have a problem.
You know, what is Donald Trump's logo? What is Donald Trump saying? 'Let's make America great again.' What does that mean? That America is not great now. And whether we like it or not; whether we accept it or not; whether we agree with it or not — and I don't; I certainly don't — I think there is a large swath of the American people who feel that way today, and it is important to recognize that.
COSTELLO: Well, it's not only that, John, but there's no—
AVLON: But, Carol—
COSTELLO: There's no nuance in their messages. It's black and white. Look, we're going to do this, and it's going to have this effect.
AVLON: Yeah, well — yeah. Look, that's the — the essence of populism. And what Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders both share is that, with the polarization of the two parties, you've got an increase in populism — conservative populism and — and liberal populism of an old-school kind. Those folks do feel that they may be getting left behind in America. They do feel anxious about America. So it makes sense that the extremes end up echoing each other. But because it's happening at a time when the parties are more polarized than the American people, you can over-index that. You can take that too much into account. It's happening. It's serious. It's an existential problem for the party. It is not an existential problem for America yet.
COSTELLO: All right. I have to leave it there. John Avlon, Ana Navarro, thanks so much.
