Appearing on Sunday's edition of CNN's State of the Union, Lindsey Graham described himself to host Dana Bash as someone who is "all-in" for President Trump and wants him "to win."
So it was striking to hear such a strong Trump supporter also candidly and firmly express his disapproval of Trump's grant of across-the-board pardons and commutations for all J6 participants.
Among Graham's multiple expressions of disapproval:
"I think when you pardon people who attack police officers, you're sending the wrong signal to the public."
"I've said clearly I do not like it when President Trump pardoned people who beat up cops."
But that wasn't good enough for Bash. When Graham also criticized Biden for having commuted the sentence of a man who killed two FBI agents and pardoned multiple family members despite having promised not to do so, and criticized Kamala Harris for raising bail money for George Floyd rioters, Bash repeatedly tried to shut him down.
As Graham spoke of Biden's commutation of the sentence of the killer of two FBI agents, Bash interrupted, saying of Trump's pardons, "This is different." Shot back Graham: "I don't think the families of the FBI agents think so."
And Graham's attempt to talk about Kamala raising bail money for the Minneapolis rioters led to this exchange:
GRAHAM: You know, when Kamala Harris wanted to go and --
BASH: Let's stay on Donald Trump and what happened.
GRAHAM: Let's talk about the problem. The problem is, she tried to raise money, called them freedom fighters, who burned down Minneapolis. They tried to burn down the Portland Courthouse.
BASH: Senator, I'm asking you about this thing that you're --
GRAHAM: I know you just want to talk about Trump --
BASH: Well, he's the president!
Guess what, Dana? When Biden pardoned the killer of two FBI agents, he was president. And when Kamala raised bail money for George Floyd rioters, she was a sitting senator angling to curry favor with the Democrat left and become Biden's VP pick.
Note: Graham went so far as to suggest that if a pattern of pardons along the lines of those granted by Trump and Biden continued, "there may be an effort to rein in the pardon power of the president as an institution."
Here's the transcript.
CNN
State of the Union
1/26/25
9:04 am ETDANA BASH: President Trump pardoned or commuted hundreds of people convicted of assaulting police in the January 6th attack on the U.S. Capitol, put a lot of lives in danger, including yours.
I want you to just look at one example. I think this is important. Michael Fanone. He is, was, a D.C. police officer. He was off that day, but he came in because he knew the officers needed help to protect the U.S. Capitol, to protect you and your colleagues.
He was tased. He was beaten to the point he had a heart attack. He was threatened with being shot with his own gun. He had to scream back at them, I have kids. Now, the man who tased him, who was convicted of doing that, Daniel Rodriguez, he was sentenced in 2023 to 12 years in prison.
On Monday, he was among those who got a full pardon. Are you okay with that?
LINDSEY GRAHAM: No. I've always said that I think when you pardon people who attack police officers, you're sending the wrong signal to the public at large. And that's not what you want to do to protect cops. But he has that power.
Biden pardoned a guy that shot two FBI agents in South Dakota. The FBI was all upset about that. He pardoned half his family when he said he wouldn't. President Trump at least said, I'm going to do this.
I don't like this. I don't like it on either side. And I think the public doesn't like it either. So if this continues, if this is the norm, there may be an effort to rein in the pardon power of the president as an institution.
BASH: Have you talked to the president about this? Did you tell him that you're opposed to what he did?
GRAHAM: No, no. We've had this debate. You know, I'm all in for him. I want him to win. I think pardoning people who beat up cops, pardoning people who killed two FBI agents like Biden did, trying to raise bail for rioters in Minneapolis like Kamala Harris did, all send the wrong signal. And so that's where I'm at. But he did it. Biden did it. And I think most Americans don't like it.
BASH: Okay. I mean, I get what you're saying about the FBI agents, and he did that on his last day. But this is, this is different. This is, this is, this is . . .
GRAHAM: I don't think the families of the FBI agents think so.
BASH: I'm just, I want to ask you about the ramifications.
GRAHAM: Yeah, I'm worried.
BASH: In your own words, because you have said that having a pardon of somebody who took the law into their own hands will make more, make violence more likely.
So I do want to look forward on this question, which is, if somebody was pardoned and believes --
GRAHAM: You own.
BASH: Pardon me?
GRAHAM: You own it.
BASH: Well, you own it, and they believe that they can do what they want if they do it in the president's name. Isn't that encouraging dangerous lawlessness?
GRAHAM: You know, when Kamala Harris wanted to go and --
BASH: Let's stay on Donald Trump and what happened.
GRAHAM: Let's talk about the problem. The problem is, she tried to raise money, called them freedom fighters, who burned down Minneapolis. They tried to burn down the Portland Courthouse.
BASH: Senator, I'm asking you about this thing that you're --
GRAHAM: I know you just want to talk about Trump --
BASH: Well, he's the president!
GRAHAM: Yeah, but I see it as a bigger problem. I mean, yes, I've said clearly I do not like it when President Trump pardoned people who beat up cops. But I didn't like it when Biden pardoned all of his family going out the door. I didn't like it when Kamala Harris tried to raise bail money for people who beat up cops and shot them in the head. I don't like any of this.
BASH: You said he's going to own it.
GRAHAM: Yeah, all of them are going to own it.
GRAHAM: Because there are people who testified. Law enforcement who testified in these trials. Prosecutors who are worried for their safety.
GRAHAM: Well, the public was told by Trump what he would do, and he did it. So you can't say he lied to anybody. Biden said he wasn't going to pardon his family --
BASH: Okay, let's --
GRAHAM: Whether you like Trump or not, he said, this is what I'm going to do --
BASH: He says he wants to invite these, some of these pardoned, uh, individuals to the White House. Do you think he should do that?
GRAHAM: I'll leave that up to him, but I've been as clear as I can about what I think.
BASH: Okay, one last question on this. Stewart Rhodes of the Oath Keepers militia, he had an 18-year sentence on a seditious conspiracy conviction. That was commuted. He was at President Trump's speech last night in Las Vegas.
GRAHAM: I don't think there's a restriction on him being there. I don't like this. You know, we had a guy that was on death row that Biden gave a life sentence that walked into a bank and shot two ladies in South Carolina in cold blood, and he started complaining about the conditions of confinement.
I don't like any of this. I think most Americans would like the president to use the pardon power in a way to send the right signals, not the wrong signals.
BASH: But you might have to revisit it if he does more of this?
GRAHAM: He has the authority to do it. Now, should we as a nation, given what's happened with all these folks, look at it? If you've got an idea about how to rein in the pardon power of the president that goes too far, give me a call.
