On Wednesday, while discussing Forbes magazine releasing its 2015 Most Powerful list, the hosts of CBS This Morning were perplexed by Russian president Vladimir Putin beating out President Obama for the top spot, with Obama only being number three on the list. Charlie Rose pressed Forbes assistant managing editor Luisa Kroll: “Make the case as to why Vladimir Putin is more powerful than President Obama.”
Kroll explained: “I think a lot has to do with how he exercises his power and his influence. Whether it’s in Crimea or in the Ukraine, he’s not afraid to go out and exercise his power. He has no checks and balances.” Rose interjected: “So it's not a question of being more powerful, he’s simply using it.”
Kroll pointed out: “Yes, and that’s one of the factors, how actively you use your power.”
Moments later, fellow co-host Gayle King fretted: “But the President of the United States wasn’t even in the number two position. You would think, in America – ” Kroll responded:
No, that’s the first time since we’ve been doing the list that he actually falls, that any U.S. President falls out of the top two spots. Again, I think it has a lot to do with the fact this is going to be his last year in office. He’s a little bit more hamstrung, both domestically and internationally. And that’s just a nod to his decreasing power at this time.
Co-host Norah O’Donnell still couldn’t wrap her mind around Obama not being the most powerful on the international stage: “I was stunned by that because the U.S. economy is five times larger than the Russian economy, we spend ten times more on the military than the Russians do. So how do you define power for this issue?”
Kroll noted: “Well, again, it's money, it's the use of power, it's the spheres of influence, and it's the number of people....I think it's not that we’re saying the U.S. isn't powerful, it is definitely still the most powerful country, but in terms of the number one person in the way that Putin exerts his influence.”
Other than Kroll’s brief reference to Russia seizing territory in Ukraine, there was no mention of Obama’s string of foreign policy failures.
Here is a full transcript of the November 4 segment:
8:13 AM ET
NORAH O’DONNELL: How about this Forbes story, huh?
CHARLIE ROSE: Alright, should I start reading this now?
O’DONNELL: Yeah.
GAYLE KING: That’d be good.
ROSE: Alright. Forbes is revealing its annual list of the world’s most powerful – I was caught up in the Kansas City story – most powerful people. We are bringing it to you first on CBS This Morning. The magazine looked at many factors, including money and influence. Seventy-three names make up this year's picks. At number five, Chinese president XI Jinping. Number four, Pope Francis. President Obama comes in third. Number two, German Chancellor Angela Merkel, and topping the list for the third straight year, Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Luisa Kroll is assistant managing editor of Wealth at Forbes, we’re pleased to have her here. Welcome.
LUISA KROLL: Thank you so much for having me.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: They’ve Got the Power; Forbes Reveals the World’s Most Powerful People]
ROSE: Make the case as to why Vladimir Putin is more powerful than President Obama.
KROLL: I think a lot has to do with how he exercises his power and his influence. Whether it’s in Crimea or in the Ukraine, he’s not afraid to go out and exercise his power. He has no checks and balances.
ROSE: So it's not a question of being more powerful, he’s simply using it.
KROLL: Yes, and that’s one of the factors, how actively you use your power. Obviously, Barack Obama has more checks and balances because of the way that the U.S. has been set up, in a much more democratic fashion.
ROSE: And a less inclination to use it in the same way.
KROLL: Exactly.
KING: But the President of the United States wasn’t even in the number two position. You would think, in America –
KROLL: No, that’s the first time since we’ve been doing the list that he actually falls, that any U.S. President falls out of the top two spots. Again, I think it has a lot to do with the fact this is going to be his last year in office. He’s a little bit more hamstrung, both domestically and internationally. And that’s just a nod to his decreasing power at this time.
O’DONNELL: I just was – I was stunned by that because the U.S. economy is five times larger than the Russian economy, we spend ten times more on the military than the Russians do. So how do you define power for this issue?
KROLL: Well, again, it's money, it's the use of power, it's the spheres of influence, and it's the number of people. Obviously, it's also a subjective list. And you have to look at the fact that there are 30 Americans on this list. By far more than any other country. There are only four Russians. So I think it's not that we’re saying the U.S. isn't powerful, it is definitely still the most powerful country, but in terms of the number one person in the way that Putin exerts his influence.
ROSE: Let me talk about two on the list. Number 69 is Justin Trudeau, just got elected prime minister of Canada.
KROLL: Yes.
ROSE: He’s new.
KROLL: Yes, he is.
ROSE: And number 72 is Donald Trump.
KROLL: Yes, again I think he’s a controversial one as well. He’s just inserted himself into the dialogue of this country to such an extreme. He does have money. He increasingly has power and influence. I think it’ll be really interesting to see if he’s a one-hit wonder. I guess we’ll come back next year and talk about and take a look.
KING: But it’s interesting, Luisa, because Hillary Clinton’s also on the list as number 58, she’s described as a “Presidential Candidate.” He at number 72 is described as an “Entrepreneur, Personality.” Why the distinction there?
KROLL: Well, I guess we’re revealing a little bit about our take on some of this stuff, but clearly he is entertaining, he is a personality, he is a very wealthy entrepreneur. We’ll see.
KING: And you said he wouldn’t have made the list six months ago.
KROLL: No, he would not have made the list six months ago.
KING: Because?
KROLL: He clearly was not influential enough. He has used his political candidacy to really insert himself into the country's dialogue and he’s gotten a huge amount of attention.
O’DONNELL: There are nine women on this list.
KROLL: Yes, only nine women.
O’DONNELL: And who are some of the most notable?
KROLL: Well, obviously Angela Merkel, that’s very notable. I mean, she’s been the most powerful woman in the world for a decade and she moves back to number two, it’s only her second time that high in the ranks. That really is talking about her huge influence in Europe. And her role, whether it's the refuge crisis, you know, she’s taking a very active role in inserting herself. Again, whether or not that, you know, what happens with that, you know, time will tell.
O’DONNELL: Really interesting.
ROSE: Thank you for coming.
O’DONNELL: Yeah, thank you for being here with us.
KROLL: Thanks so much for having me.
