Last night’s edition of CNN NewsNight with Abby Phillip, more colloquially known as the “Thunderdome”, opened with a segment on the federalization of Washington D.C.’s Metro Police Department- which is clearly the media’s Current Thing (at least until the Smithsonian cycle kicks off in earnest). A liberal media darling tried to flex his talking points outside of the usual amen corner and got shut down.
Watch as Florida Congressman Maxwell Frost tries to gotcha Scott Jennings on gun laws and the Big, Beautiful Bill, and just gets swatted away:
ABBY PHILLIP: Well, those guns -- those laws being violated suggest that it's D.C.'s gun laws that are making those guns illegal, because you actually are not allowed to have -- for the most part, most people are not allowed to have guns in the District of Columbia.
SCOTT JENNINGS: That's true.
MAXWELL FROST: Well, I'm just a little confused though because, Scott, you're saying that, you know, Republicans in Congress and folks are not free legal guns, why is Donald Trump completely gutting the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, the parts of it that support law enforcement, the parts of it that support the entire federal government, working together with local law enforcement on crime, illegal gun statistics, on intelligence on guns, illegal gun trafficking, cracking down on these guys, why is Donald Trump undoing all of that from A to Z?
JENNINGS: Well, I don't know that's true, A-
FROST: It is true.
JENNINGS: B, Republicans are for legal gun ownership. Of course, we believe in a Second Amendment.
FROST: Well, you can't just, like, toss that aside and move forward.
JENNINGS: Well, you're making an allegation and I don't know that it is true. I'm just saying that Republicans want to enforce the law. And the laws of D.C. have obviously not been enforced to the point where the citizens believe they're safe. That's the point of this 30-day --
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: Republicans also want fewer gun laws, period.
Frost came up as a gun control activist and is most often seen on cable news within the warm cocoon of a fawning interview, concomitant to being the much-hyped first member of Gen-z elected to Congress. But Thunderdome is different.
Frost tried to interject himself into Scott Jennings’ debunking of Abby Phillip’s non sequitur about an alleged sudden Republican interest in illegal guns. Republicans have always been concerned over prohibited possessors, who commit the overwhelming majority of gun-related offenses, inasmuch as they get lumped in with law-abiding gun owners.
In this instance, Frost tried to catch Jennings with a prefab point about certain gun control provisions being stripped out as a result of the Big, Beautiful Bill. Jennings rightfully refuses to engage Frost’s unspecified provisions and rolls right through with his points. Frost chafes at his arguments being unacknowledged, only to get them unacknowledged again, and is left sitting plaintively.
Whether on gun control or any other item of leftist dogma amplified by the media, it is instructive to watch Jennings not accept the premise of a given statement at face value. The “truth-based” left and the media that champion them simply have no answer for this.
Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned segment as aired on CNN’s NewsNight with Abby Phillip on Tuesday, August 12th, 2025:
ABBY PHILLIP: Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. Let's get right to what America's talking about. Does the nation's capital look like a war zone or a safe zone? Tonight, the Rorschach test applies to the streets of Washington, D.C., as National Guard troops are now walking the streets as part of President Trump's takeover of the city's police force. Now, by most metrics, crime has been going down in D.C. but, does that matter if people don't feel safe. That is what the White House is banking on to justify its dramatic move. So, when it comes to facts or feelings, is there room for both in this conversation? Tonight, we're seeing the National Guard troops on the National Mall, which I should note is not where the crime is in Washington, D.C. But, S.E., wrote something, you know, provocative on your Substack about whether you think Democrats are sort of falling into a trap here of Donald Trump's making?
S.E. CUPP: Yes, I think a few things can be true. One is that I think he's using this issue to distract for some other things. That doesn't mean it's a bad political strategy. I think it's a very good one. And the numbers can be what they are, but also people don't feel that way. And when it comes to two things, crime and the economy, feelings don't really care about your facts. And I can't tell you how profoundly stupid it is for Democrats to get up with their facts and their figures and their charts and their graphs and say, look, you're safe. Can't you read this chart, idiots? Why are you complaining? I'm showing you right here how safe you are. So, shut up and move along. I don't have to tell you how profoundly stupid that is, because voters told you how profoundly stupid that was in 2024 when Democrats said, see these economic numbers? The economy's great. What are you complaining about? See these crime numbers, crime's down, you're safe. See these immigration numbers? Obama deported way more. There's no migrant crisis. I can't tell you enough that politics is perception and the numbers can be right, but you never tell voters they're wrong about how they feel.
PHILLIP: Congressman?
MAXWELL FROST: I actually agree with some of what you said. I think it's really important to never tell people the way that the way they feel is invalid. And I think that was a mistake that a lot of Democrats made the last election, especially as they traveled the country. We knew that on paper the economy was growing, but the fact of the matter is when the economy is set like this and the wealth and equality is so horrible in this country. Even when the economy grows, it grows like that. And then the working class and people at the bottom don't feel it as much. And that's why we have to, you know, work on bold, transformational change so people actually feel it at home. But as to what's going on in D.C., I got to tell you the facts and the figures do show that crime has been going down, that gun violence has been going down in this country, but people are still saying that they don't feel safe. And the truth is that we have a lot of work to do, especially as it relates to gun violence. The issue that is the reason I got involved in politics at 15 years old because I didn't want to get shot in school. I never thought it would hit my community. 49 people died at Pulse nightclub. And three months after that, I survived gun violence on the streets of Orlando. So, it's a very personal thing for me. What I think is important is, you know, in front of us, is this all- or-nothing thing? Oh, well, either you dismiss the feelings or you say you're right, and then make D.C. into a police state. And I got to tell you, I'm texting people on the streets of DC right now, people who live there who are saying, I don't feel safe. I'm scared. Now, I'm just kind of scared to go outside. There's a path here that's neither of these, and it's looking at we understand that you don't feel safe. We understand that there's still work to do. Let's look at what we've done, how far it's taken us, and say we have even more to go here. And the fact of the matter is, and violence has been going down, violence has been going down, but we have a lot more to do. And I think we can do both at the same time.
PHILLIP: Before I let you in, Arthur, I mean, look, on both the facts, the statistics and the feelings based on polling, it looks like, first of all, D.C. residents believe that crime is a serious problem, that that's unquestionable. About half of them say it's very serious, and then another 41 percent say it's moderately serious.
But then when you ask them whether it's getting bad, better, worse, or staying the same, most say it's either staying the same, so plateauing or getting better, only 28 percent say it's getting worse. So, they are -- these are people who live in the District of Columbia. They are worried about their own safety, but they also recognize that things are changing from the high of the worst part in 2023 and the COVID years.
ARTHUR AIDALA: The one statistic that any law enforcement agency cannot play around with is the murder rate, right? Because there's a dead body, you can't hide that. You know, people don't report robberies, people don't report rapes, but murders, for the most part, get reported. The murder rate in D.C. over the last couple of years is much higher than it was -- I think it's doubled from 2021 to 2024. It's averaging 200 murders a year, whereas 2011 to 2014, it was 98 murders was the average. So, that matters because of what we were talking about perception. When you're reading the newspaper and you're reading about people getting killed, that's very troublesome. In terms of whether the National Guard should be doing this or the Washington, D.C. Police, the Washington, D.C. Police haven't been living up to the task. They had 4,000 members at one point. Now, they have 3,200 members. That's a tremendous decrease. And I don't think that common citizen cares if it's -- who's protecting them. They just want to go out and be safe, and Donald Trump is saying, look, this local government's not doing it. This is D.C. This is where I live now and I'm going to do it. And as I said, I think if someone -- a robbery is prevented, or I spoke to police Commissioner Kelly from New York today, apparently there's a lot of carjackings going on in Washington, D.C.
PHILLIP: There were more, but that has also gone down.
AIDALA: But even, Abby, if it's one, it's one too many, right? We all live that way.
PHILLIP: I understand that. I'm just saying the carjacking problem has -- it was extremely acute a few years ago and it's improved.
AIDALA: But, again, good, better, best, never let it rest until the good gets better and the better gets best.
PHILLIP: Yes. I mean, on the Democrats --
AIDALA: Excuse me?
FROST: Should we do it everywhere?
AIDALA: If it's necessary, if it was -- if local municipalities have failed. Look, if we don't fight crime, the other fights don't matter. So, the streets are clean, but you're afraid to go out, it doesn't matter. If the schools are treating kids excellently, but you're afraid to send your kid to school, it doesn't matter.
PHILLIP: So, what is the appropriate response, Chuck, from Democrats on this? Because, I mean, look, I actually have questions about whether -- I mean, the tactics will be the story here at the end of the day, or whether it will be the politics of how this is talked about.
CHUCK ROCHA: This drives me crazy because I'm a Democrat who lives in the Porsche Ward in D.C. Our crime levels are higher than every other place in the city, and I live there every day. And crime is a problem in D.C. You hear it from a Democrat. Democrats, to S.E.'s point, in what you wrote today, I read what you wrote and I thought it was good, is like we take the bait every time. We can be for law and order and not kill unarmed black kids in the street all at the same time. But this military that's in the street is a whole different level of overreach where they take the bait every time. I want to save the city. And Democrats should say they won't save cities without killing unarmed black boys in our city. You could do both of those things.
CUPP: But there's one solution, and I want Scott's opinion as well, of course, but let residents tell you they don't want the military there. Just like Trump overplays his hand. Democrats take the bait. Trump overplays. Trump overplayed with deportations. Voters were with him that immigration's a problem. It needs solving. He overplayed, the polling reflect that. Let citizens tell you, residents of D.C. say --
ROCHA: My neighbors are telling you that, S.E.
CUPP: No, that's what I mean. I'm saying don't, as Democrats, get up on T.V. and say, this isn't right. Let the residents say, we like that someone's solving the problem, this isn't the solution.
PHILLIP: Well, S.E., what do you want Democrats to say? Oh, it's fine, just bring the military in?
CUPP: Well, no, of course. But --
PHILLIP: I mean, if they don't and they're not the ones -- I mean, it sounds like what a lot of Democrats rank and file --
CUPP: But you have one right here.
PHILLIP: I know. What I'm saying --
CUPP: These things can be true --
PHILLIP: Right. But I'm saying --
CUPP: -- at the same time.
PHILLIP: -- what is -- what should be the response of elected Democrats? Because it sounds like a lot of Democrats, rank and file ones, they actually want their elected officials to be a little tougher, to fight back a little bit more.
CUPP: Yes.
PHILLIP: And so I'm wondering like what is the appropriate response? Should they just for 14 days for the polling to come in?
CUPP: No. But when Muriel Bowser went up on MSNBC, the D.C. mayor, and said, crime is down, problem solved, essentially saying this is a figment of your imagination. There was no, to your point, yes, we could do better. Yes. This is a problem that we have to really keep looking at.
PHILLIP: Well, I do think that Muriel Bowser --
CUPP: That makes people go crazy.
PHILLIP: And we actually have -- we have some sound from her and from the police chief. They were out today. It's been interesting to watch her navigate this because she knows that she doesn't have a lot of choices in this situation. But she's also been pushing back against actually some people in her own party in the City Council about what to do about some of this crime. But listen to what they were saying today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAMELA SMITH: We know that we have to get illegal guns off of our street, and if we have this influx or enhanced presence, it's going to make our city even better.
MURIEL BOWSER: How we got here or what the -- what we think about the circumstances right now, we have more police and we want to make sure we're using them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Scott?
SCOTT JENNINGS: Well, the polling that you showed earlier combining people who thought extremely -- crime is an extreme problem, or crime is a moderate problem, was 91 percent. So, that is --
PHILLIP: Yes, I totally agree.
JENNINGS: So, 91 percent of people who live in a jurisdiction think it's a moderate or an extreme problem. This is not a figment of anyone's imagination. This is not mass hysteria. This isn't, you know, some, you know, collective hallucination. It's real. People who live there know they aren't safe. And so, I don't know, Chuck, why anybody would care, whether it's a police officer, to Arthur, to your point, or a National Guardsman or a Park police, who also were out patrolling apparently, I don't know why they would care if there are more eyes and ears on the street that makes them feel like if somebody is going to do something criminal or violent or untoward, there may be a greater chance that someone sees it. And so it's a 30-day project. Last night there were 23 arrests, and they also picked up some illegal guns, which the mayor was just talking about and the police chief are just talking about. Why don't we give them 30 days, see the results, and then maybe the residents of D.C. and the leadership of D.C. can say, well, this worked, this didn't, here's how we could tweak it and do better. It's a 30-day --
PHILLIP: By the way, I find it interesting and probably it's a good thing that Republicans now are talking about illegal guns on the streets. Because prior to that was always the one thing that was never the cause of crime was guns on the streets. And those officers, to your point, Scott, are out there and they're picking up illegal guns, which, frankly, maybe Democrats and Republicans are meeting in the middle here on this, that is an issue in just the district and in a lot of parts of the country.
JENNINGS: Well, Republicans aren't for illegal guns. Republicans are for responsible gun ownership.
FROST: Well, because Donald Trump --
PHILLIP: A lot of Republican believe that D.C. --
JENNINGS: If guns are being used in crimes --
PHILLIP: A lot of Republicans believe that D.C.'s gun laws are illegal, that they are overbearing.
JENNINGS: Well, that's different than --
PHILLIP: And so those gun laws being --
JENNINGS: -- picking up illegal guns.
PHILLIP: Well, those guns -- those laws being violated suggest that it's D.C.'s gun laws that are making those guns illegal, because you actually are not allowed to have -- for the most part, most people are not allowed to have guns in the District of Columbia.
JENNINGS: That's true.
FROST: Well, I'm just a little confused though because, Scott, you're saying that, you know, Republicans in Congress and folks are not free legal guns, why is Donald Trump completely gutting the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, the parts of it that support law enforcement, the parts of it that support the entire federal government, working together with local law enforcement on crime, illegal gun statistics, on intelligence on guns, illegal gun trafficking, cracking down on these guys, why is Donald Trump undoing all of that from A to Z?
JENNINGS: Well, I don't know that's true, A. B, Republicans are for legal gun ownership. Of course, we believe in a Second Amendment.
FROST: Well, you can't just like (INAUDIBLE) and move forward.
JENNINGS: Well, you're making an allegation and I don't know that it is true. I'm just saying that Republicans want to enforce the law. And the laws of D.C. have obviously not been enforced to the point where the citizens believe they're safe. That's the point of this 30-day --
(CROSSTALKS)
PHILLIP: Republicans also want fewer gun laws, period. So, yes, they want legal gun ownership, but they also don't want as much regulation on guns at all. So, I think that's part of what --
JENNINGS: But a Republican would also tell you, and since I am one, I will, that it's not the guns. It's the criminals running around the streets of problem with the illegal guns.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: I mean, by that token, you would leave the illegal guns.
JENNINGS: A gun becomes illegal when a violent person uses it on another person.
FROST: That's not --
JENNINGS: That's what happens.
FROST: You need to look a little bit more into how this (INAUDIBLE) where it starts and where it ends guns on the black market. And the bipartisan Safer Communities Act --
JENNINGS: Republicans don't support --
FROST: Then why is Donald Trump getting rid of all the programming legal and all the funding in the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which is the reason why the last three years, gun violence has gone down the most we've in the history of this country. We still have a lot of work to do. People still feel not safe. But there's still work to do here.
AIDALA: I would just tell you this.
PHILLIP: A quick last word.
AIDALA: New York City was the safest when Michael Bloomberg was the mayor. It was very, very safe on the Bloomberg administration. He made a deal with all five district attorneys that as long as they sentenced anyone with an illegal gun to two years of mandatory prison, Plaxico Burress of the New York Giants won the Super Bowl, caught the catch, won the Super Bowl, and then got caught with an illegal gun. And after going through three great lawyers, still got two years in jail for that illegal gun, that sent a tremendous message to the youth in the most underprivileged neighborhoods that if you touch an illegal gun, you're definitely going to go to jail, and it worked.
JENNINGS: Okay. So, Washington, D.C. --
PHILLIP: Well, we got to leave the conversation there.
