This past week, CNN again backtracked on a COVID-related issue the liberal news network had previously dismissed as a right-wing "conspiracy theory" as network medical contributor and former Planned Parenthood head Leana Wen admitted that overcounting of COVID deaths and hospitalizations is likely a problem that needs to be corrected -- a subject she covered in a couple of Washington Post op-eds -- on January 13 and 19.
After appearing on last Tuesday's CNN This Morning to discuss her first piece that made the startling admission, on Friday she published the second piece calling for an examination of death certificates from the past few years to get an accurate accounting of the pandemic's effects.
CNN host Don Lemon set up the discussion: "In a Washington Post op-ed, CNN medical analyst and former Baltimore health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen, asks: 'Are some of these Americans dying from COVID or with COVID?' That's a distinction. She goes on to say: 'Two infectious disease experts I spoke with believe that the number of deaths attributed to COVID is far greater than the actual number of people dying from COVID.'"
Dr. Wen went on to admit there are likely many patients who died from something else who were also tested for COVID and misleadingly included in the statistics. Although she declared that she believes the numbers were more accurate in the earlier days of the pandemic when Americans did not have immunity, she also endorsed the idea of reexamining death certificates from the past to get more accurate numbers (click "expand"):
Well, this is the reason why this kind of transparent reporting is going to be so important. There is a way for us to look at death certificates and also to look at the medical records of individuals prior to their death.
And I think that needs to be separated into three categories. One is the -- the COVID as a direct contributor, the primary cause of death. The second is: Could it be a secondary contributing cause? So, for example, somebody with kidney disease, COVID then pushes them over the edge to have kidney failure. That's COVID as a contributing cause. And then the third is COVID as an incidental finding, so someone coming in with a gunshot wound or a heart attack and they happen to test positive.
I think that we need to separate out and look at the percentages of each. That percentage would have shifted over time as well. In the beginning, probably a lot more people were dying with the primary cause of COVID. That probably has shifted. And I think again we need to understand this.
As co-host Poppy Harlow followed up, she seemed worried that "conspiracy theorists" would exploit Dr. Wen's admission:
And I just wonder if you're concerned for people at risk like that or other vulnerable groups that this gives -- that this can give fodder to conspiracy theorists who downplay COVID to anti-vaxxers? I'm sure you, you know, you thought about that, right, as you were -- as you were writing this. Are you worried about that?
Towards the end of the segment, Lemon raised the possibility that as much as 70 percent of COVID deaths are being incorrectly blamed on the illness: "Listen, to be clear, though -- and it says in your op-ed, the COVID death count, it turns out -- if it turns out to be 30 percent of what is currently reported, that is still unacceptably high."
Dr. Wen notably explained that recounting of "excess deaths" to help estimate COVID deaths because there was also an increase in Americans dying from other causes during the pandemic like drug abuse or delaying critical health care.
The fact that CNN is even taking these concerns seriously is a flip flop from its past of labeling such talk as right-wing "conspiracy theory." Former CNN senior media reproter Brian Stelter did so on his Reliable Sources show multiple times while other shows also dismissed such claims.
For example, he said this on May 3, 2020: "I see a lot of conspiracy theorist stuff going on, especially on the far-right wing, some on the far left as well, saying, 'These numbers are actually overcounts -- there are -- these people aren't all dying from COVID. They're dying from other diseases.'"
The episode of CNN This Morning was sponsored in part by ADT. Their contact information is linked.
Transcripts follow:
CNN This Morning
January 17, 2023
7:39 a.m. EasternDON LEMON: Well, coronavirus deaths are once again on the rise all across the United States -- 33 states are showing increases of up to 50 percent or more deaths this week compared to last week. In a Washington Post op-ed, CNN medical analyst and former Baltimore health commissioner, Dr. Leana Wen, asks: "Are some of these Americans dying from COVID or with COVID?" That's a distinction. She goes on to say: "Two infectious disease experts I spoke with believe that the number of deaths attributed to COVID is far greater than the actual number of people dying from COVID." So let's bring Dr. Leana Wen in to talk about her op-ed. Doctor, thank you so much. Listen, I know that you don't want to and we don't want to underplay the risk of COVID after three years. It is still a leading cause of death in this country -- the story I just read about the number of deaths increasing. Can you explain -- and infections -- can you explain why you believe COVID deaths are being overcounted?
DR. LEANA WEN: I think it's important for us to be intellectually honest in this case, and that includes recognizing that circumstances have changed. At the beginning of the pandemic, we had a situation where there were many people dying from COVID pneumonia, including health young people were dying because of severe shortness of breath, difficulty breathing. They were hospitalized because of it. Then, as a result of vaccines and as a result of a lot of people getting COVID and having some level of immunity to it, we're seeing far fewer cases of that kind of severe COVID -- and COVID pneumonia specifically -- and yet hospitals are still routinely testing everyone who's getting admitted for COVID, and so we're seeing many people who are hospitalized with COVID, and I think it's important to separate out who is being hospitalized because of it because there are a lot of people whom are still very concerned about risk from COVID, and we need to give them the most accurate data possible so that they can better gauge their risks. There are people who are still not resuming indoor dining or not going to the gym or socializing. And I think we have to give them the most accurate reporting possible.
(...)
7:42 a.m. Eastern
KAITLAN COLLINS: And also, doctor, these are two separate things here -- overcounting deaths and overcounting hospitalizations. As you know, I covered this closely, being in the Trump White House when this happened. I talked to a lot of health officials about this who are actually kind of skeptical of this claim that you're making, and I think one big thing has been, what is the evidence that these COVID deaths are actually being overcounted?
WEN: Well, this is the reason why this kind of transparent reporting is going to be so important. There is a way for us to look at death certificates and also to look at the medical records of individuals prior to their death. And I think that needs to be separated into three categories. One is the -- the COVID as a direct contributor, the primary cause of death. The second is: Could it be a secondary contributing cause? So, for example, somebody with kidney disease, COVID then pushes them over the edge to have kidney failure. That's COVID as a contributing cause. And then the third is COVID as an incidental finding, so someone coming in with a gunshot wound or a heart attack and they happen to test positive. I think that we need to separate out and look at the percentages of each. That percentage would have shifted over time as well. In the beginning, probably a lot more people were dying with the primary cause of COVID. That probably has shifted. And I think again we need to understand this.
(...)
7:45 a.m. Eastern
POPPY HARLOW: And I just wonder if you're concerned for people at risk like that or other vulnerable groups that this gives -- that this can give fodder to conspiracy theorists who downplay COVID to anti-vaxxers? I'm sure you, you know, you thought about that, right, as you were -- as you were writing this. Are you worried about that?
WEN: It's interesting that I have had criticism on both sides. There are people who have said, "Well, why are you saying that we are overcounting COVID deaths now? You should have said this two and a half years ago." There are others who have said, "Well, we are not overcounting them," and they give various reasons as to why. I think, at the end of the day, we just need the truth. And part of that truth is what you mentioned, Poppy, which is that vaccines are highly protective -- that vaccines are very effective. They're very safe in vulnerable groups, including pregnant women. Pregnant individuals should be getting vaccinated. At the same time, we should also be honest about who was dying from COVID during the early parts of the pandemic versus who is dying from COVID now. I think that type of honest, transparent reporting is really important, including for fostering trust in public health.
LEMON: Mmhmm. Listen, to be clear, though -- and it says in your op-ed, the COVID death count, it turns out -- if it turns out to be 30 percent of what is currently reported, that is still unacceptably high.
WEN: That's exactly right, and there are still so many other people who are dying because of the pandemic. When you look at the number of excess deaths -- the predicted number of deaths versus the actual number of deaths then, we are still having a lot of people who are dying. They're dying from overdoses, they're dying from suicide, they're dying because their health care was disrupted -- cancer screenings -- and diabetes management was delayed. But I think that, if we attribute all those deaths to COVID, we're actually missing many of these structural issues in our health care system that have to be addressed. So that's why that honest, transparent reporting and a standardized approach across the country is going to be really important.
HARLOW: Dr. Leana Wen, thank you -- certainly got all of us talking this morning.
LEMON: Yeah. Thank you, Doctor, appreciate that.
(...)
CNN's Reliable Sources
August 16, 2020
11:37 a.m. EasternBRIAN STELTER: And we have to constantly remind viewers that it's even worse than we know. It's even worse than the data indicates.
OLIVER DARCY: Mm.hmm. And, Brian, if you pay attention to conservative media, you know that the opposite is being told to them. You know, on talk radio and on some of these right-wing sites, there's this conspiracy theory that the deaths are being overcounted, so it's even more important for news outlets to stress these are, you know, these are very likely undercounted numbers.
(...)
CNN's Reliable Sources
May 3, 2020
11:29 a.m. EasternSTELTER: And we know there's an undercount when it comes to the number of dead, but exactly how do we know that? And what should we say to people who conspiracy theorize about an overcount of the deaths.
(...)
11:30 a.m. Eastern
JENNIFER B. NUZZO, JOHNS HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: So, if anything, we may see that the true number is actually larger than what's been reported and not the other way around.
STELTER: I see a lot of conspiracy theorist stuff going on, especially on the far-right wing, some on the far left as well, saying, "These numbers are actually overcounts -- there are -- these people aren't all dying from COVID. They're dying from other diseases."
