Thursday on Morning Joe, the discussion became heated very early. During a conversation about a clip of Stephen Miller speaking on Fox News, the topic of conservatives on college campuses arose because host Joe Scarborough tried making a connection between how Miller was likely treated versus who Miller is today.
Chief legal correspondent Ari Melber spoke in a clip played in the beginning of the segment concerning Miller’s Fox News appearance: “Steven Miller coming out last night and saying on a news program that the new ban will be just like the old ban . . . I can tell you he just served up the ACLU's opening line in any argument against the new travel ban in court. They will say, well, judge, you blocked the old ban for these reasons and the government has already conceded through Mr. Miller who is in charge of this process the new ban is basically the same so it should be blocked too”
After the clip ended, Scarborough reacted by asking one of his co-hosts, Willie Geist, why Stephen Miller is allowed on TV: “Willie why do you let him on TV? I– Forget whatever he is pushing, like he is so bad on TV . . . But seriously. He is -- he just -- it looks like he just got out of shop class in 11th grade and went down to the principal's office where they had a closed circuit TV set...”
After the panelists continued to mock Miller and President Trump, Scarborough continued: “No. He is just bad! Just technically bad at it! I mean I thought Donald Trump...Cared about central casting...People who were good on TV...People who could communicate” Geist added, “But also, if you really want the executive order to pass a court–Being petulant about it is not the way to do it. Molding it and shaping it, finding the problems with the previous one, and finding a new way to push it through is the way to get it, not to say, well it's basically the same thing, take it or leave it... It’s a terrible strategy”
The mocking resumed with co-host Mike Brzezinski and guest Donny Deutsche. Deutsche exclaimed: “It’s basically saying I was right the first time! I was right the first time! I was right the first time!” Brzezinski added to this with, “I'm a tiny dictator! I’m in charge.”
Historian John Meacham interrupted this with a question: “But do you think he has an audience of one?” Brzezinski exclaimed, “It’s himself!” while Scarborough answered: “Yes...Yeah– You know, it's an audience of one because he- Nobody else in the White House thinks that.” Meacham continuing his line of questioning, “But is ... is that what the President wants him to say on TV?” Scarborough emphatically answered, “Yes!” but Brzezinski still disagreed saying, “No, no. No. That's a no! Trust me.” Scarborough retorted, “ I think he probably likes him very much or else he wouldn't be there.”
Brzezinski continued with the segment reading a portion of an Andrew Sullivan article in New York Magazine:
Oh! Andrew Sullivan writes about this White House mole in the New York Magazine. I feel like I know Stephen Miller. I feel like I know him because I used to be a little like him. He’s a classic a type. A rather dour right of center kid whose conservatism was radicalized by lefties in the educational system. No I’m not blaming liberals for Miller’s grim fanaticism. I am noting merely that right of center students are often mocked, isolated on campus, and their response is often, sadly, a doubling down on whatever it is that progressives hate, Before too long, they start adopting brattish and obnoxious positions just to tick off their SJW peers and teachers. After a while, you’re not so much arguing for conservatism as against leftism...
Following Brzezinski reading some of the column, Scarborough took control of the room:
This is just a brilliant point . . . And I know this. Look at me. I went to two southern state schools. I can't name a single center or right of center professor I had in history, political science, English, you name it. They were all Democrats . . . I went off to law school. I said the most basic things in the University of Florida Law, right? Very conservative area . . . And if you even dared to go a little right of center, a lot of times you get booed in class . . . And so pretty soon, you just go quiet and let them run roughshod. . . people who aren't conservative will never understand this . . . if you’re Steven Miller, if you’re young– ... you get the– you know what kicked out of you every single day. You try to express your opinions in an environment that is supposed to be liberal and open-minded. Pretty soon, you say, well . . . if I can't even say mainstream conservative thought in my class, I might as well go out on the quad and have an affirmative action bake sale. The hell with them, okay? Because you know what? This is what I found. The reaction is the same . . . You’re going to get killed either way, so put it in their face . . . anybody that claims that I don’t know -- go to hell. You don't know what you're talking about. You live with it every second as a conservative . . . I'm impassioned about this for a reason. It's one of the great failings of our academic system that it is so illiberal- that unless you don't march in lock steps in the best college campuses in this country, you are shunned. So what do you end up doing?! You get shoved to extreme positions! Just to push back at the extreme hatred that you face from the second you walk into an elite institution . . . nothing makes me angrier as far as liberal hypocrisy than in this area alone and Andrew Sullivan nailed it.
After Scarborough’s monologue finally ended Meacham answered: “And this is where the conservative movement began because what was Bill Buckly's first book? It was about iliberalism at Yale. And the fact that you couldn't be overtly religious. You couldn’t be outside the center left– world then . . . I mean, there is an intolerance for dissenting opinions that are right of center and this has been going on now for 70 years. The conservative movement began as a reaction . . . but also to this cultural reality that conservatism–was not a socially respectable, that is the word, respectable.”
Once Scarborough and Meacham gave their thoughts, Deutsche, who was dying to speak, finally did: “I think that’s just a case of a jerky guy. We can give this whole explanation of why he is overreacting. This is a guy who said a President should not be questioned. That a president has – authoritative authority. I don't know why that is a result of him being in college put in a corner because there are liberal people. Maybe he is just a jerk. I agree with your thesis, by the way, but that’s not an explanation for that guy.”
Geist. correcting him said, “But we are talking about where his world view came from and how it was formed. And in his case you talk about conservatives going quiet. He didn't go quiet. He wrote letters to his school... And the school newspaper in high school. Then went to Duke University. He wrote columns for the conservative newspaper railing against the administration. So this is a guy who is living and breathing this ideology his whole life and now has been elevated to the right hand of the most powerful man in the world.”
Scarborough, adding to Geist’s point, “I haven't hammered anybody more than I've hammered this guy in public life Donny, so I make no apologies for him. Andrew Sullivan is just explaining. The difference between you and the difference between him, whether you come on this show or not or whether he is sitting in class in an elite institution. You have a choice. If you don't come on this show, you have a good life. You're living a good life. If you are not left of center and you want to go to one of the best colleges in America, you don't have a choice. You have to go in class, you have to sit there-” Interrupting Scarborough Deutsche said, “I agree with your thesis, just not for him”
Scarborough continued, ranting: “Well, no. But . . . Ann Coulter is just as offensive in so many things that she says . . . that is the point that Andrew Sullivan makes in this piece, which is, you push him into a corner, don't be shocked. You kick him around every day, right?. . .Steven Miller, Ann Coulter all these people when they were 18 years old and going on to college campuses, well I’ve got views. I'm going to express them. They can't do that without getting hammered and getting by the way, Fs in classes.”
<<< Please support MRC's NewsBusters team with a tax-deductible contribution today. >>>
This is the exchange that took place on February 23
MSNBC -Morning Joe
6:20 AM SegmentARI MELBER: Steven Miller coming out last night and saying on a news program that the new ban will be just like the old ban. He described any differences as of a minor or technical nature. I can tell you he just served up the ACLU's opening line in any argument against the new travel ban in court. They will say, well, judge, you blocked the old ban for these reasons and the government has already conceded through Mr. Miller who is in charge of this process the new ban is basically the same so it should be blocked too.
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Willie, why do you let him on tv? I -- forget whatever policy he is pushing, like he is so bad on TV.
WILLIE GESIT: But–
SCARBOROUGH: Steven Miller. Not Ari!
MIKA BRZEZINSKI: Not Ari
GEIST: No Ari is great
SCARBOROUGH: But seriously. He is -- he just -- it looks like he just got out of shop class in 11th grade and went down to the principal's office where they had a closed circuit TV set for you know --
DONNY DUETSHE: How much money– how much lunch money did he give up for getting --
SCARBOROUGH: No. He is just bad! Just technically bad at it! I mean I thought Donald Trump—
BRZEZINSKI: Wanted stars!
SCARBOROUGH: Cared about central casting–
BRZEZINSKI: He likes stars
SCARBOROUGH: People who were good on TV-
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah I like that look.
SCARBOROUGH: People who could communicate-
BRZEZINSKI: That’s not the look!
SCARBOROUGH: This guy is just– everything’s wrong
GEIST: But also, if you really want the executive order to pass a court–
SCARBOROUGH: Yes
GEIST: Being petulant about it is not the way to do it. Molding it and shaping it, finding the problems with the previous one, and finding a new way to push it through is the way to get it, not to say, well it's basically the same thing, take it or leave it.
SCARBOROUGH: Its the same thing–
GESIT: It’s a terrible, terrible strategy.
DONNY DEUTSCHE: It’s basically saying I was right the first time! I was right the first time! I was right the first time!
BRZEZINSKI: I'm a tiny dictator! I’m in charge.
JOHN MEACHAM: But do you think he has an audience of one?
SCARBOROUGH: Yes.
BRZEZINSKI: It's himself!
SCARBOROUGH: Yeah– You know, it's an audience of one because he- Nobody else in the White House thinks that --
DEUTSCHE: But to your point Trump–
JON MEACHAM: But is he just– is that what the President wants him to say on TV?
BRZEZINSKI: I can’t– no.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes!
BRZEZINSKI: No, no. No. That's a no! Trust me.
SCARBOROUGH: I think he probably likes him very much or else he wouldn't be there.
DEUTSCHE: He is screaming in my ear so–
BRZEZINSKI: Oh! Andrew Sullivan writes about this White House mole in the New York magazine. I feel like I know Stephen Miller. I feel like I know him because I used to be a little like him. He’s a classic a type. A rather dour right of center kid whose conservatism was radicalized by lefties in the educational system. No I’m not blaming liberals for Miller’s grim fanaticism. I am noting merely that right of center students are often mocked, isolated, and, help me out here, anathematized on campus, and their response is often, sadly, a doubling down on whatever it is that progressives hate, Before too long, they start adopting brattish and obnoxious positions just to tick off their SJW peers and teachers. After a while, you’re not so much arguing for conservatism as against leftism, and eventually the issues fade and only the hate remains.
SCARBOROUGH: So this is– this is just a brilliant point
MEACHAM: Yup
SCARBOROUGH: And I haven't said anything Andrew Sullivan has written in years–
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah I know you guys were–
SCARBOROUGH: Since he fell deeply in love with Barack Obama and was fawning over Obama for eight years. I haven’t said this about Andrew Sullivan– He so completely nails this. And I know this. Look at me. I went to two southern state schools. I can't name a single center or right of center professor I had in history, political science, English, you name it. They were all Democrats. They all loathed Reagan. I went off to law school. I said the most basic things in the University of Florida law, right? Very conservative area.
MEACHAM: Right
SCARBOROUGH: And if you even dared to go a little right of center, a lot of times you get booed in class. And so-- Mika knew people-- that were ultimately Dartmouth review and made a lot of waves. I can tell you, though, it gets to a point, where you – whatever you say in class, if you're not left of center and playing to the -- you get booed a lot of times or you get sneered at. And so pretty soon, you just go quiet and let them run rough shot. And people– people who aren't conservative will never understand this in a million years. So if you're Ann Coulter, if you’re Steven Miller, if you’re young– and I’m like Andrew Sullivan. I'm making no excuses for any of these people. But you get the– you know what kicked out of you every single day. You try to express your opinions in an environment that is supposed to be liberal and open-minded. Pretty soon, you say, well, listen, if I'm going to Dartmouth and I can't express what 53% of Americans believe in whatever years those were, the late '80s Dartmouth reviews–
BRZEZINSKI: It wasn’t a pretty time.
MEACHAM: Right.
SCARBOROUGH: So– if– if I can't even say mainstream conservative thought in my class, I might as well go out on the quad and have an affirmative action bake sale. The hell with them, okay? Because you know what? This is what I found. The reaction is the same.
MEACHAM: Right.
SCARBOROUGH: Whether you have a mainstream thought in class that gets killed or whether you go out and have an affirmative action bake sale, you're going to get killed either way, so put it in their face. And again, I went to two southern state schools and by the way, anybody that claims that I don’t know -- go to hell. You don't know what you're talking about. You live with it every second as a conservative.
DEUTSCHE: Joe I b–
SCARBOROUGH: Every second as a conservative!
DEUTSCHE: But Joe– Joe–
SCARBOROUGH: I'm talking to him!
DEUTSCHE: Okay I know, but --
SCARBOROUGH: It's one of the great failings and I know you'll agree with me. It's one of the– and I’m--I'm impassioned about this for a reason. It is one of the great failings of this country. It's one of the great failings of our academic system that it is so illiberal that unless you don't march in lock step in the best college campuses in this country, you are shunned. So what do you end up doing?! You get shoved to extreme positions! Just to push back at the extreme hatred that you face from the second you walk into an elite institution. And I'll be quiet now. But– nothing makes me angrier as far as liberal hypocrisy than in this area alone and Andrew Sullivan nailed it.
MEACHAM: And this is where the conservative movement began because what was Bill Buckly's first book? It was about iliberalism at Yale. And the fact that you couldn't be overtly religious. You couldn’t be outside the– the center left– world then. When Buckley founded the National Review, I think I have this right- he said that conservatives are out in the sense that The New York Times, the league of women voters, and Henry Steele Comentures -- or the embody of that are in. And you're exactly right. I mean, there is a -- there is an intolerance for dissenting opinions that are right of center and this has been going on now for 70 years. The conservative movement began as a reaction, first to Eisenhower and the fact he didn't repeal the new deal and that is where things started moving, but also to this cultural reality that conservatism–
DEUTSCHE: Can I jump in please?
MEACHAM: That conservatism was not a socially respectable, that is the word, respectable. The key intellectual figure ofthe 1950's right? - was somebody like Lionel Trilling, right?
SCARBOROUGH: Right
MEACHAM: And– just conservatism was not respectable is also what gave–
SCARBOROUGH: By the way, give his quote, by the way. Trilling's quote about conservatism.
MEACHAM: Right it was –
SCARBOROUGH: It's a good one.
MEACHAM: Help me–
SCARBOROUGH: It’s something about spasms – just irrational thought.
MEACHAM: Oh spasms– yeah right spasms of an irrational– an irrational mind, manifestations of that. But this is what – the left should think about is this is what gave the world the American enterprise institute. This is what gave the world the Heritage foundation. They believe they had to create alternative institutions to the university.
BRZEZINSKI: We can see that in the media too.
DEUTSCHE: Let me just jump in. First of all, don't scream at me like that. I don't deserve that, okay?
SCARBOROUGH: I know. I know. I'm sorry.
DEUTSCHE: No I'm serious that– don’t–
SCARBOROUGH: Are you serious about that?
DEUTSCHE: I am serious. Don't scream at me. I was just trying to make a point. And the point–
SCARBOROUGH: Well okay. I was actually trying to make a point too. I wanted to finish it.
DEUTSCHE: Okay. Okay. And just say excuse me. You don't have to lash out at me. Okay? The second thing is–
SCARBOROUGH: Are you kidding me, Donny?
DEUTSCHE: No, I am serious.
SCARBOROUGH: Alright, really?
BRZEZINSKI: Okay come on
DEUTSCHE: I'm not kidding at all.
BRZEZINSKI: I want to hear what Donny had to say.
SCARBOROUGH: We go back and forth and we are friends.
DEUTSCHE: Well we are but–
SCARBOROUGH: So seriously? You're going to ask me on television to apologize to you when we get off the air and you go that was really good? Which you do all the time.
BRZEZINSKI: Come on. Stop it.
DEUTSCHE: No but not when you–
SCARBOROUGH: If you do it all the time stop playing TV
DEUTSCHE: Okay but first of all that was rude– I’m sorry that was rude.
SCARBOROUGH: Stop playing TV.
DEUTSCHE: I'm not playing TV. Can I make my point now?
SCARBOROUGH: Yes you are--All right. You don't have to come on.
DEUTSCHE: Okay that’s fine. You want to dis-invite me?
BRZEZINSKI: I want to hear what you want had to say, Donny.
DEUTSCHE: I think that’s just a case of a jerky guy. We can give this whole explanation of why he is overreacting. This is a guy who said a President should not be questioned. That a president has – authoritative authority. I don't know why that is a result of him being in college put in a corner because there are liberal people. Maybe he is just a jerk. I agree with your thesis, by the way, but that’s not an explanation for that guy.
BRZEZINSKI: What is the explanation for that guy?
GEIST: But we are talking about where his world view came from and how it was formed. And in his case you talk about conservatives going quiet. He didn't go quiet. He wrote letters to his school---
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah. And he’s relentless
GEIST: And the school newspaper in high school. Then went to Duke University. He would– wrote columns for the conservative newspaper railing against the administration. So this is a guy who is living and breathing this ideology his whole life and now has been elevated to the right hand of the most powerful man in the world.
SCARBOROUGH: And by the way, the difference between let’s say somebody in his postion– and by the way we haven’t– I haven't hammered anybody more than I've hammered this guy in public life Donny, so I make no apologies for him. Andrew Sullivan is just explaining. The difference between you and the difference between him, whether you come on this show or not, I said to make a point, or whether he is sitting in class in an elite institution. You have a choice. If you don't come on this show, you have a good life. You're living a good life. If you are not left of center and you want to go to one of the best colleges in America, you don't have a choice. You have to go in class, you have to sit there-
DEUTSCHE: I agree with your thesis just not for him
SCARBOROUGH: Take– Well, no. But I don’t- Ann Coulter is just as offensive in so many things that she says. Again, and that is the point that Andrew Sullivan makes in this piece, which is, you push him into a corner, don't be shocked. You kick him around every day, right? Like imagine you're a big tough guy, and so that is why we go back and forth and you do say afterwards, boy, that was fun. We had a good time and so now you’re smirking.
DEUTSCHE: You feel bad, and so now you feel better?
SCARBOROUGH: No, I don't feel bad. We– go back and forth all the time and then the camera goes off and I am saying all that because would say, that was good–
BRZEZINSKI: Oh come on just stop
SCARBOROUGH: That was fun and you're smirking because it's the truth—
MEACHAM: Can I have a quick fact check
SCARBOROUGH: But you can do that!–
BRZEZINSKI: Is it going to be boring?
MEACHAM: Yeah
SCARBOROUGH: Steven Miller, Ann Coulter all these people when they were 18 years old and going on to college campuses, well I’ve got views. I'm going to express them. They can't do that without getting hammered and getting by the way, Fs in classes.
