'One Of The Most Insulting Things': PBS Attacks Trump Admin's Pope Criticisms

Alex Christy
April 18th, 2026 9:39 AM

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Ever since Pope Leo assumed the papacy, PBS News Hour Friday contributors MS NOW host Jonathan Capehart and The Atlantic staff writer David Brooks have tried to claim him as one of their own in their fight against the Trump administration. That continued this Friday as the duo essentially told Vice President JD Vance to shut up when it comes to criticizing Leo’s remarks about the Iran War, with Capehart claiming they are among “the most insulting things” a VP could say and Brooks arguing the Iran War is permissible under just war theory, but also isn’t because Trump.

Host Amna Nawaz began with Capehart and wondered, “Pope Leo issued a pretty strong statement rebuking the war in Iran. Trump then unloaded on him online. Vice President Vance jumped in to criticize him as well, telling him to be careful on matters of theology. Is it smart for the president to be getting into it with the pope? What does he stand to gain from that?”

 

 

Using logic he would never apply to abortion, Capehart replied:

No, it's not smart at all to be getting into it with the pope, to be fighting with the pope, even though the president says, ‘I'm not fighting with the pope.’ Yes, you are, and over something where it's like the president is taking the words from the pope very, very seriously, when any pope, Pope Leo, Pope Francis, Pope John Paul, would have been saying the same thing, because this is about life and death. This is about right and wrong. And it's something big that's happening in the world that has commanded the pope's attention.

Eventually getting to Vance, Capehart added, “The vice president of the United States converted to Catholicism nine years ago. For him to tell the vicar of Christ, who's been a priest for 34 years, that he needs to—quote—‘be careful’ about how he talks about theology is one of the most insulting things I think I could possibly ever hear being said, one, to the pontiff, but, two, from the vice president of the United States. All of this is maddening and surreal.

Nawaz then turned to Brooks, “David, what do you think of this? I mean, the way the president criticized the pope and then for Vice President Vance to speak of him the way that he did, what are you taking away from this?”

Brooks agreed with Capehart but shrunk Vance’s conversion from nine years ago to nine minutes, “I agree with Jonathan that you shouldn't—J.D. Vance shouldn't be questioning the pope after being Catholic for nine-and-a-half minutes. But I do think what you see here is the contrast between the way Trump has gone into this war, which is cavalier in the extreme, and Catholic just war theory, which traced back to Augustine and Aquinas, which is intellectually rigorous.”

 

 

For context, nine years ago was when Brooks married his former research assistant, who is 23 years younger than him.

Brooks then tried to explain just war theory and actually argued that the war could pass the test, “And you have—to be a just war, you have to clear a series of hurdles that make sure you're doing the thing right and you have thought about this carefully. And in some ways, I do think they have cleared some of the hurdles. There has to be just cause, it has to be morally righteous. I think that's arguable.”

However, he then twisted himself into a pretzel and said it didn’t, “But some of the other hurdles, it is clearly not a cause. Is there right intention? Donald Trump has not explained what our goals and intentions are. So there's no right intention. Is it last resort? Have we given diplomacy every rule? Well, obviously not.”

He then concluded, “Is there a probability of success? Well, there was no clear probability of success, because it wasn't carefully calculated. So one of the things you see with what the pope is doing, he's trying to put an intellectual, rigorous process on how you evaluate a very deadly policy. And the Trump administration is completely incapable of thinking in these terms.”

The fact that Brooks can’t even agree with himself on whether the Iran War could pass just war theory only proves that this issue is nuanced, and telling Vance to essentially shut up does not actually help differentiate between just and unjust wars.

Here is a transcript for the April 17 show:

PBS News Hour

4/17/2026

7:46 PM ET

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask you also about something we reported on earlier, which is the president somehow feuding with Pope Leo. Jonathan, we heard Liz reporting on it earlier as well. In the way of background, Pope Leo issued a pretty strong statement rebuking the war in Iran. Trump then unloaded on him online. Vice President Vance jumped in to criticize him as well, telling him to be careful on matters of theology. Is it smart for the president to be getting into it with the pope? What does he stand to gain from that?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: No, it's not smart at all to be getting into it with the pope, to be fighting with the pope, even though the president says, “I'm not fighting with the pope.”

Yes, you are, and over something where it's like the president is taking the words from the pope very, very seriously, when any pope, Pope Leo, Pope Francis, Pope John Paul, would have been saying the same thing, because this is about life and death. This is about right and wrong. And it's something big that's happening in the world that has commanded the pope's attention.

The thing that I have that— and so, you know, I'm not Catholic. I went to Catholic school. But I can understand Catholics in America, but around the world, being very offended by how the president has talked about the pope, talked to the pope, put images of himself as a pope.

And then just one other thing. The vice president of the United States converted to Catholicism nine years ago. For him to tell the vicar of Christ, who's been a priest for 34 years, that he needs to—quote—"be careful" about how he talks about theology is one of the most insulting things I think I could possibly ever hear being said, one, to the pontiff, but, two, from the vice president of the United States. All of this is maddening and surreal.

NAWAZ: David, what do you think of this? I mean, the way the president criticized the pope and then for Vice President Vance to speak of him the way that he did, what are you taking away from this?

DAVID BROOKS: Well, the president was sacrilegious. The Easter texts were vulgar and crude on Easter, and then the Jesus image was legitimately sacrilegious. And so I think one of the great cons that Donald Trump has pulled off is the idea that he's a man of faith. And I think, after the last few days, even a lot of Trump supporters are acknowledging, well, he's not a person of faith, he's not a man of God, because nobody acts that way.

I agree with Jonathan that you shouldn't—J.D. Vance shouldn't be questioning the pope after being Catholic for nine-and-a-half minutes. But I do think what you see here is the contrast between the way Trump has gone into this war, which is cavalier in the extreme, and Catholic just war theory, which traced back to Augustine and Aquinas, which is intellectually rigorous.

And you have—to be a just war, you have to clear a series of hurdles that make sure you're doing the thing right and you have thought about this carefully. And in some ways, I do think they have cleared some of the hurdles. There has to be just cause, it has to be morally righteous. I think that's arguable.

But some of the other hurdles, it is clearly not a cause. Is there right intention? Donald Trump has not explained what our goals and intentions are. So there's no right intention. Is it last resort? Have we given diplomacy every rule? Well, obviously not.

Is there a probability of success? Well, there was no clear probability of success, because it wasn't carefully calculated. So one of the things you see with what the pope is doing, he's trying to put an intellectual, rigorous process on how you evaluate a very deadly policy.

And the Trump administration is completely incapable of thinking in these terms.

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