SOFTBALL: ABC’s Jon Karl Sucks Up to ‘Kingmaker’ Mamdani

Jorge Bonilla
June 28th, 2026 7:53 PM

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After a dominant Primary Night that saw three of his endorsed candidates prevail in their Democrat primaries, Mayor Zohran Mamdani of New York City drew top billing on ABC’s This Week. The interview with Jon Karl was predictably soft.

The interview opens with Karl musing about whether Mamdani can take his movement national, setting Mayor Cardamom up for a lengthy messaging set piece where he admits that in face he’s taking his message national:

JON KARL: You've had a heck of a week. I mean, the election, you -- the candidates you endorsed won down the line, and you knocked off two Democratic incumbent members of Congress. Is this, is this like a unique moment in New York, or is this the beginning of a national movement?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think we are seeing a hunger that is not just felt by New Yorkers, but frankly by Americans from coast to coast, for a new kind of politics, one that puts working people at the heart of it. And I think for far too long what we as a party have been able to say to New Yorkers who are struggling is simply to explain why they're struggling, not actually offer them a vision for how to make life better. And these candidates -- Brad, Darializa, Claire -- they ran campaigns that spoke to working people, and that said life in the nation's most expensive city need not be this way any longer. And I can't wait to have them as partners in D.C. and at work.

KARL: So, do you see yourself endorsing candidates outside of New York? Or --

MAMDANI: You know, for now, my focus is on this incredible slate of three congressional candidates, as well as, as you said, the five candidates I endorsed, who ran and won, who are all going to be heading to Albany in the state legislature.

But I do think, as you said, it's not just New York City where working people are asking themselves, why can't I afford my rent, why can't I afford my groceries, why can't I find enough money in my pocket for childcare, no matter how hard I work? And I'm so excited that these incredible soon-to-be congressmembers will be helping to lead the fight across the country on making sure that working people are right there where they should be, which is the heart of the conversation.

Karl offers little pushback as Mamdani confirms he will take his messaging national. There wasn’t much in the way of follow-up offered here or during the next set of questions aimed at getting Mamdani to react to critiques of his socialist messaging from within the Democrat Party.

The most significant exchange from the interview is this sequence: watch as Karl lightly confronts Mamdani on the insane positions held by his protegé Darializa Avila-Chevalier. Mamdani tries to deflect by saying that DAC won on affordability, before exposing virulent anti-semitism as what is truly at the heart of the DSA’s gains in New York City.

KARL:  Now, you know, there's been a lot of attention on one of the candidates you supported, one who knocked off an incumbent Democrat, is Darializa Avila Chevalier. She said some very controversial things, including calling for the abolition of prisons- couldn't say whether or not somebody who had committed murder should be in prison. Called for open borders. Against all deportations, including those of violent criminals.

Are those positions that the Democratic Party could win on nationally?

MAMDANI:  I think what the Democratic Party can win on nationally is a focus on working people, and I think that what I saw from Darializa when I would walk the streets of her district was a focus on what she describes as the politics of life. She would talk about how we have to invest in babies, not bombs. She's now going to represent what is one of the poorest districts in the United States of America. And what people in that district are exhausted by is a politics that has justified the spending of tens of billions of dollars in killing civilians overseas, while working people are struggling just to do the basics.

KARL:  But how does that -- how does abolishing prisons or having open borders fit into that? I mean, do you see how that's -- those are ideas that a lot of your Democrats that are warning about what happened here say are toxic, most of America won't go along with. They are bad ideas. They are dangerous ideas.

MAMDANI:  I think what the focus of her race was, what the focus of her candidacy was, was about the struggle that working people are facing.

And I think that we can have disagreements on policy positions. What we have to agree on is what are we fighting for, and who are we fighting for? She showed that in her race, and I think that many people will come to appreciate that in her leadership to come.

KARL:  So we can disagree on something as basic as whether or not there should be prisons?

MAMDANI:  There --

KARL:  That's not your position?

MAMDANI:  There are prisons.

KARL:  Yes.

MAMDANI:  And what we're also showing in this city is that safety is not something that's up for debate. It’s something that we're actually delivering on. And I'm proud to be the mayor of a city that currently has the lowest recorded number of murders and shootings in recorded history in New York City.

KARL:  So there was also a take -- it's not just Democrats. You probably heard what President Trump had to say about you and about the candidates you supported. And he warned that if socialists win -- and he calls you communists but -- you will start living in squalor, there'll be no food, no housing, no military, no law and order. There'll be nothing, and he had a few other choice words.

By the way, he also said he still likes you.

(LAUGHTER)

KARL:  But what do you make of what he -- I mean, the Democrat -- Republicans are going to make you the poster child for the Democratic Party.

MAMDANI:  Let them. We don't have to ask ourselves what life looks like if a socialist wins. I won last November, and over the course of these last six months, what we've delivered for working people are the very things we were told were impossible.

We've delivered free childcare for two-year-olds for the first time in New York City history. We've delivered tens of millions of dollars back to tenants who were taken advantage of by bad landlords. We've delivered 165,000 potholes being paved. And we've done all of these things while also delivering the lowest recorded crime in our city's history. That's what it looks like to have Democratic socialism. And what you're seeing is that New Yorkers experienced this for six months and made the decision that they wanted to see more of it on the national stage as well.

KARL: Can a Democratic socialist get elected president?

MAMDANI: I think a Democratic socialist can get elected anywhere across this country for any position. What I think we need to bring is a focus on working people.

KARL: And that's the direction that the party should go in, in terms of selecting a candidate for 2028?

MAMDANI: I think the direction that the party should go in is how best to fight for working people. I think we need to have a platform and a vision that doesn't sound as if it was cooked up by consultants, but instead one that you would say in response to someone who's asking, why can't I afford my rent, why can't I afford my groceries, why can't I afford my childcare? We need to make clear who we stand for, how we're going to stand for them, and that we're actually willing to fight for them when the going gets tough.

KARL: Obviously, Israel was a big issue in these races. Not the only issue, but a big issue. Is there room in the Democratic Party for candidates, officials who support Israel, not just support Israel, but support military aid for Israel? This was a huge issue for you.

MAMDANI: Well, I think what we've seen is that the time for us, as elected officials, to pronounce what the party should be is one that should come to an end, and we should let Democratic voters themselves take the lead. We've seen on Tuesday evening, we saw Democrats turn out in districts across the city to make clear that they were tired of tens of billions of dollars being spent in our taxpayer dollars to violate international law, to kill thousands of civilians. And you and I know that right now, the way that Palestine is described is as if there is a ceasefire. That's the language that's typically used.

KARL: Yes.

MAMDANI: More than a thousand Palestinians have been killed in that ceasefire. And what New Yorkers want to see is a politics of conscience, a politics of clarity, a politics of conviction. And to follow international law, to believe in the humanity of all people, it shouldn't be a journey too far. And I think that our party needs to hear what Democrats are telling them.

KARL: Democratic Socialists of America now says they no longer favor a two-state solution. Is that the way you see it as well, the idea of two states, Palestinian and Jewish states, side by side, living in peace?

MAMDANI: The way I see it is, equal rights for all people. And I think that that's the truth for Israel. It's the truth for any country in the world. And frankly, as we're coming up close to the 250th anniversary of our nation, one of the things that makes me proudest to be an American is the belief that equal rights are at the bedrock of our notion of what it means to be an American.

KARL: And the idea of a Jewish state, Israel as a Jewish state, that's in the charter, that's the way it is now. Do you support that?

MAMDANI: I've said time and again that I support the state of Israel as a state with equal rights. I believe that any state that --

KARL: But as a Jewish state is the question.

MAMDANI: I think any state that privileges one religion over the other is one that I can't tell you I support, whether it be Israel or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else. And a lot of that comes back to a fundamental belief that we should all be considered equal, no matter what our faith is.

KARL: How big a problem -- you've said it's rising -- is anti-Semitism in this city?

MAMDANI: We've seen anti-Semitism rise in this city. We've seen the fact that Jewish New Yorkers comprise a minority of our city's population, and yet continue to constitute a majority of the hate crimes that have been purveyed in this city. And that's something that's unacceptable. It's something that we will never come to see as if it is a part of life. It's something that has to be fought and rooted out of every one of the five boroughs.

KARL: What did you think when Dan Goldman -- that coffee shop in Brooklyn said that they didn't -- they wouldn't serve him because of his support for Israel.

Do you have a problem with – I mean, the idea of, you know, of an establishment like that saying they're not going to serve somebody if they support Israel?

MAMDANI: I've said that I have political disagreements with Congressmember Goldman. I do believe that that's a response that goes beyond that.

KARL: So, that's not the right kind of thing?

MAMDANI: No, I think -- I think it's much better to keep that critique in the way that we’ve done it.

Note Mamdani’s refusal to condemn the coffee shop that banned Rep. Dan Goldman over his support for Israel, despite Karl’s two soft passes. The record also reflects that Karl didn’t ask Mamdani to weigh in on DAC’s role in leading violent pro-Hamas protests at Columbia University. 

The chummy interview closes out with Karl asking the Ugandan-born Mamdani whether he’d support an amendment to the Constitution so he may run for President:

KARL: So, you now hit one of the constitutional requirements to run for president. But there's another one that says you have to be a natural born citizen. You were not born here.

MAMDANI: Yes.

KARL: But do you think that's a, that's a -- something that should be changed in the Constitution? It would take an amendment. But do you think that that's -- we should change that?

MAMDANI: No.

KARL: No?

MAMDANI: I think the Constitution looks good the way it is.

KARL: Just the way it is.

MAMDANI: Just the way it is. I'm very excited to focus on New York City. But thank you for reminding me of my upcoming mortality.

KARL: Thirty-five years old, 35 years old. All right.

MAMDANI: Yes, sir.

KARL: Mr. Mayor, thank you very much.

MAMDANI: My pleasure.

Think about where we are that a member of the Elitist Media coughed up a position so radical, a hypothetical abolition of the requirement that U.S. presidents be native-born, that the socialist ended up sounding like a constitutional originalist. At least for now.

Karl and Mamdani yuk it up afterwards, shake hands, aaaand cut. This was not so much an interview as it was a staging of Mamdani as a face of the socialist takeover and eventual hollowing out of the Democrat Party. The Elitist Media seem to be falling in line fairly quickly.

Click "expand" to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on ABC’s “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” on Sunday, June 28th, 2026:

JON KARL: You've had a heck of a week. I mean, the election, you -- the candidates you endorsed won down the line, and you knocked off two Democratic incumbent members of Congress. Is this, is this like a unique moment in New York, or is this the beginning of a national movement?

ZOHRAN MAMDANI: I think we are seeing a hunger that is not just felt by New Yorkers, but frankly by Americans from coast to coast, for a new kind of politics, one that puts working people at the heart of it. And I think for far too long what we as a party have been able to say to New Yorkers who are struggling is simply to explain why they're struggling, not actually offer them a vision for how to make life better. And these candidates -- Brad, Darializa, Claire -- they ran campaigns that spoke to working people, and that said life in the nation's most expensive city need not be this way any longer. And I can't wait to have them as partners in D.C. and at work.

KARL: So, do you see yourself endorsing candidates outside of New York? Or --

MAMDANI: You know, for now, my focus is on this incredible slate of three congressional candidates, as well as, as you said, the five candidates I endorsed, who ran and won, who are all going to be heading to Albany in the state legislature.

But I do think, as you said, it's not just New York City where working people are asking themselves, why can't I afford my rent, why can't I afford my groceries, why can't I find enough money in my pocket for childcare, no matter how hard I work? And I'm so excited that these incredible soon-to-be congressmembers will be helping to lead the fight across the country on making sure that working people are right there where they should be, which is the heart of the conversation.

KARL: The reaction from Democrats has been something. You've had some prominent Democrats dismissive of what happened here. I mean, you had Senator Blumenthal say, "The effort to nationalize New York is going to fail. What happened in New York will be really irrelevant by the time of the elections in November." Hakeem Jeffries basically said the same thing, saying that this is not indicative of what needs to happen in November. What do you make of that?

MAMDANI: You know, I think that when you ask Americans what they're feeling in this moment, amidst reports of an economy that's strengthening, of a stock market that's booming, you will hear an exhaustion at having to try and make ends meet every single day, every single week, every single month, and that it's getting harder and harder. And so, a message of fighting for working people, we don't have to nationalize that message. That is a national message. It's a national crisis. And for far too long, all we've had to say as a party is opposition to the current administration. What do we have to say beyond that?

And what these candidates offer is a vision that extends beyond the midterms, it extends beyond 2028. It speaks to what makes so many of us proud to be Democrats. It speaks to a vision that goes back to a New Deal understanding of what working people deserve. And I'll tell you that for too long that kind of politics, you can only find it in history books, and we need to bring it back to the present day.

KARL: And you're hearing some, not just dismissive, though, there's resentment. And this is from fellow Democrats who think that this could jeopardize Democratic chances in the fall. I mean, you got Josh Gottheimer, a Democratic member of Congress, says, “many of us believe, as do I, if you're a socialist, you are not a Democrat.” And in fact, they put out a manifesto today. Have you seen this thing?

MAMDANI: Sounds pretty socialist to me.

KARL: It's not a communist manifesto. It's a moderate manifesto. Saying, “we are capitalist and not socialist. We believe in a growing, fair, and competitive economy, entrepreneurship, ownership.”

I mean, this is a direct response, they've made it clear, to what you did here on Tuesday.

MAMDANI: Well, I mean, you know, that's great, but what's a party if not its voters? And I'm proud to sit in front of you as the mayor of our city, having received more than a million votes a little over -- a little less than a year ago.

And when we're talking about these incredible congressional candidates, they won their races, and they won their races with a vision of what politics should be, and one that actually speaks to working people. And for a lot of people who ask themselves, what does Democratic socialism mean, and you can tell them the answer at a theoretical level, it’s choice to extend democracy from the ballot box to the rest of their lives. But in terms of what it means over these last seven months, we've seen a city with Democratic socialist principles at the heart of it within our administration. And what we've delivered has been record lows when it comes to murders and shootings.

KARL:  So is it pragmatic Democratic socialism?

MAMDANI:  I think Democratic socialism at the heart is pragmatic, because if we cannot deliver for working people, then what is this for? I'm not interested in writing a manifesto or, frankly, in reading one. I'm interested in delivering, and that's exactly what we've been showing.

KARL:  But they're saying that if you're a socialist, you're not a Democrat. I mean, is there room in the party for -- for both of these views?

MAMDANI:  Yes, here I am.

(LAUGHTER)

MAMDANI:  Here are so many more.

And I think what makes our party a beautiful party is the fact that it's a big tent that we have people --

KARL:  But you've also said it has to be a party with a spine, with a backbone.

MAMDANI:  Yes.

KARL:  So it has to stand --

MAMDANI:  Even a tent has to stay up.

KARL:  Yes. So, you know, does it have to stand firmly for these ideas that you're talking about that others are calling dangerous?

MAMDANI:  I think it has to stand for working people, and I think it has to be willing to fight for working people. And I think that there are some who are offended by the prospect of a party that knows who it fights for and goes every day to work for that, because what we've seen over many years is a willingness to not only explain away the status quo, but frankly, even to look to benefit from the status quo. And that's not what working people are looking for from our party.

KARL:  As New Yorkers were going to vote, you said something interesting. You said, “The race for 2028 starts now,” the presidential race.

What do you -- what did you mean by that?

MAMDANI:  Well, a lot of pundits asked me about this race and what it means, and how to think about it. And at the core of Tuesday's results was a message from Democratic voters across the largest city in the United States of America about the kind of politics they want to see, and we know that we oppose the cruelty of the federal administration.

What is it that we stand for beyond that?

KARL:  So, you can't just be anti-Trump --

MAMDANI:  You can't.

KARL:  -- obviously.

MAMDANI:  You got to have something you are not just willing to stand up for, but that you're also willing to explain how this is relevant to working people.

And I think this just comes back to the fact that I'm leading a city that's the wealthiest city in the wealthiest country in the history of the world. I could end the sentence there and say that life is great for eight and a half million people. But it's also a city where one in four are living in poverty.

And for far too many Americans, those contradictions have become their day-to-day life. And we need a party that's able to recognize the strengths of this economy and understand that it hasn't reached enough people.

KARL:  Now, you know, there's been a lot of attention on one of the candidates you supported, one who knocked off an incumbent Democrat, is Darializa Avila Chevalier. She said some very controversial things, including calling for the abolition of prisons- couldn't say whether or not somebody who had committed murder should be in prison. Called for open borders. Against all deportations, including those of violent criminals.

Are those positions that the Democratic Party could win on nationally?

MAMDANI:  I think what the Democratic Party can win on nationally is a focus on working people, and I think that what I saw from Darializa when I would walk the streets of her district was a focus on what she describes as the politics of life. She would talk about how we have to invest in babies, not bombs. She's now going to represent what is one of the poorest districts in the United States of America. And what people in that district are exhausted by is a politics that has justified the spending of tens of billions of dollars in killing civilians overseas, while working people are struggling just to do the basics.

KARL:  But how does that -- how does abolishing prisons or having open borders fit into that? I mean, do you see how that's -- those are ideas that a lot of your Democrats that are warning about what happened here say are toxic, most of America won't go along with. They are bad ideas. They are dangerous ideas.

MAMDANI:  I think what the focus of her race was, what the focus of her candidacy was, was about the struggle that working people are facing.

And I think that we can have disagreements on policy positions. What we have to agree on is what are we fighting for, and who are we fighting for? She showed that in her race, and I think that many people will come to appreciate that in her leadership to come.

KARL:  So we can disagree on something as basic as whether or not there should be prisons?

MAMDANI:  There --

KARL:  That's not your position?

MAMDANI:  There are prisons.

KARL:  Yes.

MAMDANI:  And what we're also showing in this city is that safety is not something that's up for debate. It’s something that we're actually delivering on. And I'm proud to be the mayor of a city that currently has the lowest recorded number of murders and shootings in recorded history in New York City.

KARL:  So there was also a take -- it's not just Democrats. You probably heard what President Trump had to say about you and about the candidates you supported. And he warned that if socialists win -- and he calls you communists but -- you will start living in squalor, there'll be no food, no housing, no military, no law and order. There'll be nothing, and he had a few other choice words.

By the way, he also said he still likes you.

(LAUGHTER)

KARL:  But what do you make of what he -- I mean, the Democrat -- Republicans are going to make you the poster child for the Democratic Party.

MAMDANI:  Let them. We don't have to ask ourselves what life looks like if a socialist wins. I won last November, and over the course of these last six months, what we've delivered for working people are the very things we were told were impossible.

We've delivered free childcare for two-year-olds for the first time in New York City history. We've delivered tens of millions of dollars back to tenants who were taken advantage of by bad landlords. We've delivered 165,000 potholes being paved. And we've done all of these things while also delivering the lowest recorded crime in our city's history. That's what it looks like to have Democratic socialism. And what you're seeing is that New Yorkers experienced this for six months and made the decision that they wanted to see more of it on the national stage as well.

KARL: Can a Democratic socialist get elected president?

MAMDANI: I think a Democratic socialist can get elected anywhere across this country for any position. What I think we need to bring is a focus on working people.

KARL: And that's the direction that the party should go in, in terms of selecting a candidate for 2028?

MAMDANI: I think the direction that the party should go in is how best to fight for working people. I think we need to have a platform and a vision that doesn't sound as if it was cooked up by consultants, but instead one that you would say in response to someone who's asking, why can't I afford my rent, why can't I afford my groceries, why can't I afford my childcare? We need to make clear who we stand for, how we're going to stand for them, and that we're actually willing to fight for them when the going gets tough.

KARL: Obviously, Israel was a big issue in these races. Not the only issue, but a big issue. Is there room in the Democratic Party for candidates, officials who support Israel, not just support Israel, but support military aid for Israel? This was a huge issue for you.

MAMDANI: Well, I think what we've seen is that the time for us, as elected officials, to pronounce what the party should be is one that should come to an end, and we should let Democratic voters themselves take the lead. We've seen on Tuesday evening, we saw Democrats turn out in districts across the city to make clear that they were tired of tens of billions of dollars being spent in our taxpayer dollars to violate international law, to kill thousands of civilians. And you and I know that right now, the way that Palestine is described is as if there is a ceasefire. That's the language that's typically used.

KARL: Yes.

MAMDANI: More than a thousand Palestinians have been killed in that ceasefire. And what New Yorkers want to see is a politics of conscience, a politics of clarity, a politics of conviction. And to follow international law, to believe in the humanity of all people, it shouldn't be a journey too far. And I think that our party needs to hear what Democrats are telling them.

KARL: Democratic Socialists of America now says they no longer favor a two-state solution. Is that the way you see it as well, the idea of two states, Palestinian and Jewish states, side by side, living in peace?

MAMDANI: The way I see it is, equal rights for all people. And I think that that's the truth for Israel. It's the truth for any country in the world. And frankly, as we're coming up close to the 250th anniversary of our nation, one of the things that makes me proudest to be an American is the belief that equal rights are at the bedrock of our notion of what it means to be an American.

KARL: And the idea of a Jewish state, Israel as a Jewish state, that's in the charter, that's the way it is now. Do you support that?

MAMDANI: I've said time and again that I support the state of Israel as a state with equal rights. I believe that any state that --

KARL: But as a Jewish state is the question.

MAMDANI: I think any state that privileges one religion over the other is one that I can't tell you I support, whether it be Israel or Saudi Arabia or anywhere else. And a lot of that comes back to a fundamental belief that we should all be considered equal, no matter what our faith is.

KARL: How big a problem -- you've said it's rising -- is anti-Semitism in this city?

MAMDANI: We've seen anti-Semitism rise in this city. We've seen the fact that Jewish New Yorkers comprise a minority of our city's population, and yet continue to constitute a majority of the hate crimes that have been purveyed in this city. And that's something that's unacceptable. It's something that we will never come to see as if it is a part of life. It's something that has to be fought and rooted out of every one of the five boroughs.

KARL: What did you think when Dan Goldman -- that coffee shop in Brooklyn said that they didn't -- they wouldn't serve him because of his support for Israel.

Do you have a problem with – I mean, the idea of, you know, of an establishment like that saying they're not going to serve somebody if they support Israel?

MAMDANI: I've said that I have political disagreements with Congressmember Goldman. I do believe that that's a response that goes beyond that.

KARL: So, that's not the right kind of thing?

MAMDANI: No, I think -- I think it's much better to keep that critique in the way that we’ve done it.

KARL: OK, so we're just about out of time. I got to ask you, I noticed that you're turning 35 soon, right?

MAMDANI: In a few months, yes.

KARL: So, you now hit one of the constitutional requirements to run for president. But there's another one that says you have to be a natural born citizen. You were not born here.

MAMDANI: Yes.

KARL: But do you think that's a, that's a -- something that should be changed in the Constitution? It would take an amendment. But do you think that that's -- we should change that?

MAMDANI: No.

KARL: No?

MAMDANI: I think the Constitution looks good the way it is.

KARL: Just the way it is.

MAMDANI: Just the way it is. I'm very excited to focus on New York City. But thank you for reminding me of my upcoming mortality.

KARL: Thirty-five years old, 35 years old. All right.

MAMDANI: Yes, sir.

KARL: Mr. Mayor, thank you very much.

MAMDANI: My pleasure.

 

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