As the Trump Administration seeks to dismantle DEI initiatives, Comedy Central’s Jon Stewart welcomed New York Times best-selling author and former president of the progressive think tank Demos, Heather McGhee, to The Weekly Show podcast on Thursday to help him make sense of it. During a discussion on Trump’s “shakedown” of elite law firms, McGhee would argue that it is easy for her to call Trump a dictator not only because of the history of racism in the U.S., but because Jim Crow-like systems still exist today.
Stewart asked, “What was the shakedown, Heather? Is it—because I still don't quite understand what he was threatening or why. I know he was gonna say, 'Oh, I'll strip your security or I'll make it harder for you to get clients.' But the why of it is—what is he saying they've done?”
McGhee answered that, “He's saying that one or more of their partners, there's a few things, basically they've defied him, right? So one or more of their partners or people who work there at some point was part of the litigation against him, right? So you have people who were US attorneys who were part of litigation against him.”
A still confused Stewart wondered, “Is he suggesting that that is an illegal act that they undertook?”
McGhee alleged the answer is yes, “Absolutely, because he's the law,” to which a worried Stewart added, “You just get that just that did not go well with my spine right there.”
Urging Stewart to get with the program, McGhee argued that it is clear Trump is a dictator, “Jon, Jon, you got to know what time it is. Can I just say something about why it's, like, easy for me to say that and accept it, and it’s kind of harder, I think, for many people in this country to wrap their minds around what time it is right now?”
As Stewart yielded the floor, McGhee continued, “So we've always been taught, I think, that there's such a thing as autocrats and dictators, and we go to war against them, right? Those are in foreign countries that don't believe in democracy like we do. But black people in America lived under autocracy for most of our history. Black people in the Deep South in many places live under a version of today, right?"
McGhee’s definition of this allegedly modern Jim Crow was quite underwhelming, “And so a world where there is a law that is the effective law that is used and enforced through violence, the threat of violence, being willing to take resources away from a community.”
What does that mean? Is McGhee arguing law enforcement should use flowers and rainbows? Is she claiming budget cuts are violence?
Stewart tried to make some sense of the comments, “Right. Economic damage,” leading McGhee to elaborate, “Exactly. That's what has been done to black America. That's Jim Crow America, right?”
McGhee continued:
So, we're not as shocked that this would happen in America, right? And I think it's really important for everyone in this country to know what time it is, right? To learn from the resistance and defiance movements all around the world, but also the movements that end the Jim Crow autocracy in the United States. To learn how to be vigilant, to not be surprised, to know that there's strength in numbers, to know that if you give an inch, when you don't have to, they will take everything, and to know what their vision is, the kind of world that they would like to see.
She would go on to claim that Trump’s battles with law firms that have government contracts over their DEI policies are all part of a master and sinister plan, “Of course, strategically, if I want to be a dictator, first, destroy the lawyers and bring them to your side. Second, capture the media. Third, disrupt the universities… When the judges who are in the same class as these big law firm partners are looking around and seeing the people who usually come, you know, and go to trial in front of them yielding without even putting up a fight, that influences the judiciary. So, this is all about a sectoral approach to bring the entire society under heel.
Meanwhile, The Weekly Show was not the only Paramount comedy-adjacent property to dive into Jim Crow analogies. The following day, The Late Show’s Stephen Colbert and Sen. Raphael Warnock would do the same.
Here is a transcript for the April 17 show:
Comedy Central The Weekly Show
4/17/2025
27 minutes, 57 seconds
JON STEWART: What was the shakedown, Heather? Is it—because I still don't quite understand what he was threatening or why. I know he was gonna say, “Oh, I'll strip your security or I'll make it harder for you to get clients.” But the why of it is—what is he saying they've done?
HEATHER MCGHEE: Very good point. He's saying that one or more of their partners, there's a few things, basically they've defied him, right? So one or more of their partners or people who work there at some point was part of the litigation against him, right? So you have people who were US attorneys who were part of litigation against him.
STEWART: And is he suggesting that that is an illegal act that they undertook?
MCGHEE: Absolutely, because he's the law.
STEWART: You just get that just that did not go well with my spine right there.
MCGHEE: Jon, Jon, you got to know what time it is. Can I just say something about why it's, like, easy for me to say that and accept it, and it’s kind of harder, I think, for many people in this country—
STEWART: Yes.
MCGHEE: -- to wrap their minds around what time it is right now?
STEWART: Please.
MCGHEE: So we've always been taught, I think, that there's such a thing as autocrats and dictators, and we go to war against them, right? Those are in foreign countries that don't believe in democracy like we do. But black people in America lived under autocracy for most of our history. Black people in the Deep South in many places live under a version of today, right?
And so a world where there is a law that is the effective law that is used and enforced through violence, the threat of violence, being willing to take resources away from a community.
STEWART: Right. Economic damage.
MCGHEE: Exactly. That's what has been done to black America. That's Jim Crow America, right?
STEWART: Right.
MCGHEE: And so, we're not as shocked that this would happen in America, right? And I think it's really important for everyone in this country to know what time it is, right? To learn from the resistance and defiance movements all around the world, but also the movements that end the Jim Crow autocracy in the United States.
To learn how to be vigilant, to not be surprised, to know that there's strength in numbers, to know that if you give an inch, when you don't have to, they will take everything, and to know what their vision is, the kind of world that they would like to see.
And it is a world where a law firm that has been around for 120 years has represented conservatives, corporations, you know, civil rights lawyers, you know, the whole thing can be brought to heel for essentially you know, A, having a DEI program, that's a diversity program, that is in the executive orders usually.
STEWART: Right.
MCGHEE: But as I said, it's not doing much. It's not like it's been taken over by communist, trans black people—
STEWART: Right.
MCGHEE: —because these law firms are still mostly white men at the top, right? As I said, just a few percent of black lawyers are partners at these big law firms. But most importantly, for violating the law, which is do not cross Trump. And then of course, strategically, if I want to be a dictator, first, destroy the lawyers—
STEWART: Right.
MCGHEE: and bring them to your side. Second, capture the media. Third, disrupt the universities.
STEWART: Yeah, because who's going to be there to file the lawsuits, right?
MCGHEE: Right. Exactly. So you need, and to intimidate the judiciary as well, right? When the judges who are in the same class as these big law firm partners are looking around and seeing the people who usually come, you know, and go to trial in front of them yielding without even putting up a fight, that influences the judiciary. So, this is all about a sectoral approach to bring the entire society under heel.
