Raffaele Trombetta will soon be leaving his job as Italian Ambassador to the United Kingdom, but before he does he had to travel over to Tuesday’s Amanpour and Company on PBS to debunk the media’s idea that his country’s new conservative prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, is a fascist.
Initially, Christiane Amanpour didn’t directly accuse Meloni of being a fascist, but noted that other people are, “So, you've had a long time to get used to—to get used to-- this. So, how should we all be looking at what's just happening in Italy? I mean, we all know that Italy was the birthplace of fascism. And her party's been accused of having roots in that.”
A lot of those accusations have come from the media and Trombetta wasn’t having any of it as he observed that democracy means candidates the media doesn’t like will occasionally win, “I think this is a result of a very democratic process. You know, there were elections. The coalition, I know the -- Giorgia Meloni is actually the leader of the main party. They got a very solid majority from the Italian people. So, I think, you know, we respect that. It's democracy functioning.”
Amanpour then gained some semblance of self-awareness as she realized she was talking to a nonpartisan civil servant, but not enough to drop the matter, “So, I know that you're a diplomat and not a politician. But I do need to try to figure out how we should all be looking at it. Whether we should all be, you know, worried and scared as we were talking to Senator Leahy about the backsliding of democracy.”
She then played a clip of former Prime Minister Matteo Renzi on CNN International, which Amanpour and Company also airs on, declaring that while he and Meloni are “rivals,” that does not make her a fascist and any fear mongering about the state of Italian democracy is “fake news.”
That should’ve ended the conversation. A partisan politician who opposes Meloni, but who knows that she’s not a fascist has more sense than most of the media, but Amanpour continued to press Trombetta more directly, “Do you believe that, that it's fake news?”
Trombetta agreed and argued that not only is Meloni not a fascist, her party’s is a typical European conservative party, “I do believe that. ... Also, if you also consider the very statement that they’ve been making before the election. Let’s talk about Russia for instance, they have been very supportive of Italian government actions, you know, to support Ukraine. So, yeah, I don't see any danger at all.”
Unwilling to take no for an answer, Amanpour continued, “how does a party like that -- it didn't just suddenly spring into popularity. These kind of right-wing roots in, you know, World War II fascist movements, have become mainstream. How did that happen?... It wasn't like Germany, who called out the Nazis and called it out and just, you know, tried to eradicate that moment and come to terms with it. Italy did something different. Can you explain that?”
For Trombetta, the answer is very simple: Italy is a democracy and conservatives exist, “Well, I think if you look also at the elections over the years, it's always the 40, 45 percent of the Italian people who are, let's say, on the conservative side. Now, they may switch sometimes from one party to the other, but the bulk is there.”
Trombetta, like Renzi, has proved that journalists should listen to the Italians before projecting their own anti-GOP sentiments onto other countries.
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Here is a transcript for the September 27 show:
PBS Amanpour and Company
9/27/2022
11:21 PM ET
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: So, you've had a long time to get used to—to get used to-- this. So, how should we all be looking at what's just happening in Italy? I mean, we all know that Italy was the birthplace of fascism. And her party's been accused of having roots in that.
RAFFAELE TROMBETTA: I think this is a result of a very democratic process. You know, there were elections. The coalition, I know the -- Giorgia Meloni is actually the leader of the main party. They got a very solid majority from the Italian people. So, I think, you know, we respect that. It's democracy functioning.
AMANPOUR: So, I know that you're a diplomat and not a politician. But I do need to try to figure out how we should all be looking at it. Whether we should all be, you know, worried and scared as we were talking to Senator Leahy about the backsliding of democracy. Let me just play for you then the words of an Italian politician, former Prime Minister Matteo Renzi.
MATTEO RENZI: I was against Giorgia Meloni, so I’m not her best friend, we grew up together in politics, but we were—we are and will be rivals always. At the same time, I think that is not a danger for Italian democracy. She is my rival. I -- we -- I'm rival. We will continue to fight each other. But the ideas are now, there is a risk of fascism in Italy, is absolutely a fake news.
AMANPOUR: Do you believe that, that it's fake news?
TROMBETTA: I do believe that. As I was saying, I mean, it was -- you know, our people voted and they -- she was elected. Also -- I mean, she was of course, you know, a party. Also, if you also consider the very statement that they’ve been making before the election. Let’s talk about Russia for instance, they have been very supportive of Italian government actions, you know, to support Ukraine. So, yeah, I don't see any danger at all.
AMANPOUR: You must have been -- you know, I mean, you're watching your country's politics. We'll get to the fact that it lurches back and forth at the drop of a hat. And we've had so many prime ministers in so few years. But how does -- and I've heard a lot of conversation and questioning around this, how does a party like that -- it didn't just suddenly spring into popularity. These kind of right-wing roots in, you know, World War II fascist movements, have become mainstream.
How did that happen? How did that happen in Italy? Because I know that there was an attempt to unify after World War II. It wasn't like Germany, who called out the Nazis and called it out and just, you know, tried to eradicate that moment and come to terms with it. Italy did something different. Can you explain that?
TROMBETTA: Well, I think if you look also at the elections over the years, it's always the 40, 45 percent of the Italian people who are, let's say, on the conservative side. Now, they may switch sometimes from one party to the other, but the bulk is there.
And I think what Giorgia Meloni has done and their party in the last few years is basically to be a convincing party for that sort of -- that side of the Italian electorate, of the Italian people. They have been, to say, convincing. They have been very consistent also in their message, you know, to the public.
So, I think rather than linking it to the fascists, I would actually connect that to the fact that, as I say, there's 40, 45 percent of the Italian electorate with, of course, some swings from one election to the others, who is generally conservative.
