Repercussions from the clash between White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer and journalist April Ryan on Tuesday, March 28, continued to be felt the following day, when MSNBC anchor Chris Jansing hosted a discussion on the incident and the definition of racism.
The argument began when Matt Schlapp, chairman of the American Conservative Union and a white man, stated that Spicer’s comments were not an example of racism before Jason Johnson, a political columnist and an African-Ameican male, shot back: “You don’t get to tell other people what racism is!”
The discussion had been relatively calm until Jansing played a part of the Hugh Hewitt radio program in which Spicer stated:
That’s what we do, go back and forth. I don’t treat one person different from the next.
To suggest that somehow because of her gender or her race that she’d be treated differently I think is, frankly, demeaning to her.
“Jason, does he have a point about that?” the host asked.
“I don’t believe him,” Johnson replied. “I think it was offensive. I think it was inappropriate. I think it was racist. I think it was sexist.”
“We also have to remember that this is the same Sean Spicer who was caught on camera … being annoyed by a local [Hispanic] woman at a local mall and said: ‘You’re lucky that you still get to live in this country.’”
“So it’s not like this is completely bizarre to think this is the case,” he continued. “We also have to remember that the rhetoric and the behavior of this administration, from top to bottom, has demonstrated a lack of respect and a lack of consideration for people of color.”
“I’m not surprised, and it seems par for the course for how they’ve operated,” Johnson added.
“I think it’s sad,” Schlapp then stated. “I think this is not going to help our country.”
He continued:
I don’t think Sean Spicer’s lying. I watch his press briefing every day, … and he allows April -- who’s a friend of mine and I have deep respect for April -- he allows her to ask multiple questions at every briefing.
I thought this was too feisty, and I don’t think the feistiness in the press briefings is actually that helpful, but I don’t think there was an ill intent or disrespect.
“I think what you’re seeing is a press secretary that’s dealing with a lot of news every day, all at once, and there’s a lot to deal with,” Schlapp added, “and I think that was a moment when he pushed back and got feisty with a reporter who he has a very good rapport with on most days.”
“This was not racism,” he stated.
Johnson loudly interrupted by declaring: “You don’t get to tell other people what racism is!”
“You don’t either!” Schlapp shot back, causing Johnson to reply: “You don’t experience it!”
“You have interrupted me throughout this exchange,” Johnson declared, “and rather than speaking respectfully and considerately, you raise your voice to me because you’re uncomfortable being spoken to by someone who doesn’t agree with you.”
“Gentlemen, gentlemen!” the host finally interrupted, then asked Johnson to finish his thought and Schlapp to respond to it.
“This is the exact kind of aggression and lack of respect we’re talking about,” the political columnist stated, “and it goes beyond Sean Spicer. It goes to President Trump. We’re talking about having civil conversations in Congress” until “the moment that someone who’s African-American demonstrates a matter of intensity of intent or strength.”
“I don’t care what color you are,” Schlapp stated. “I have respect for you. Please allow me to speak.”
“Can we count how many times you’ve interrupted me beforehand and yelled at me?” Johnson asked.
“Do I get some time?” Schlapp asked.
“Yes, you do now,” Johnson stated, “after having interrupted me consistently.”
The guest then noted:
The country has to deal with these really mettlesome issues. I don’t think it helps to immediately jump to the charge of racism, misogyny; many of us would call [this] deplorable. Let’s go to the issues at hand.
I thought April’s question was very, very respectful, and I think it’s legitimate, OK? And I think she deserves an answer to that question.
“I think sometimes the feistiness we just demonstrated to the American people, I think sometimes it doesn’t help,” he added. “Could we be honest? You have your viewpoint, and I have my viewpoint.”
“I’m a feisty person,” Schlapp noted. “I assume that’s one of the reasons you invite me here, but I think by the same token is that if we just get to calling each other the names, we don’t get to the resolution and the consensus.”
“I think our country’s in a bad place because people like me are constantly being shouted down for being racist, misogynist, hate this person, hate that person,” he continued.
As NewsBusters previously reported, Ryan was defended on Wednesday by the co-hosts of MSNBC’s Morning Joe program, as well as former Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton during a speech on Tuesday evening.
