Watch out, Tony Dokoupil is walking the streets again, ready to lecture Americans. Back in January he was using tasty-looking pies to explain socialism to the masses. On Friday, he went to Stamford Connecticut to demand Americans admit their racism. In an awkward discussion, the CBS This Morning co-host wanted to know just who is a bigot.
Walking up to people, Dokoupil began with questions like “what is racism?” He then escalated: “Sometimes our conversations started easy.... Things could quickly grow uncomfortable.” Talking to one man, the host pounced, “You defined racism the way you did. Do you fit into that in any way?”
The surprised individual stammered, “I — I — I don't hold those views. And you know, nor so associate with people who do.” Finally, he found a woman who would give the answer that CBS clearly wanted:
TONY DOKOUPIL: In this moment of national reflection, we did find some Americans trying to iron out those contradictions. In society and in themselves.
WOMAN #6: I do believe in the systemic racism that we have in America. So as a white person, I would say of course I probably do play a part in that racism.
DOKOUPIL: So, I mean this in the kindest possible way, I'm right now talking to a racist.
WOMAN #6: Technically. Although — right, I would never just say I am racist and I hate people based on the color of their skin. Of course I would not want to do that.
Want to know some of the sponsors for this insulting segment? Toyota, Edelman Financial and Miralax.
Back on January 31, Dokoupil lectured Americans on how misunderstood socialism is. He brought in props. Real pies to lobby for Bernie Sanders-style socialism.
A transcript of the segment is below. Click “expand” to read more.
CBS This Morning
6/26/2020
7:39 AM ETTONY DOKOUPIL: We're back talking about the stark divides in the way black and white Americans perceive racism even as the national dialogue about race intensifies. When it comes to applying for a job, for example, one poll said 67 percent of white Americans believed black applicants have the very same chances. Only 30 percent of black adults agree with that statement. The results of that disconnect and many others is a crisis of inequality that many white Americans still struggle to survive. Amid our national conversation about racism, we decided to start a few local ones. We're doing a big story about race in America. On the streets of Stamford, Connecticut, we asked white Americans basic questions. What were you taught about how to treat people of a different race?
WOMAN #1: I don't remember conversations at home about race. It just didn't happen.
WOMAN #2: You look at the person, not the color of their skin.
DOKOUPIL: Sometimes fielded questions of our own. Do you think you've benefitted by being white in America?
MAN #1: Of course. Do you?
DOKOUPIL: Yeah, I do.
MAN #1: Okay.
AUDIO: There's two sides to every story --
DOKOUPIL: We showed clips of our interactions to Boston University officer Ibram X. Kendi. The CBS News contributor and author of the bestseller How to Be an Anti-Racist helped us pick out patterns. How do you define racism?
WOMAN #3: When one person feels that they're better than another person.
DOKOUPIL: What is a racist then?
MAN #4: A racist is someone being discriminatory against somebody — against somebody else's race.
DOKOUPIL: Were you surprised by those answers?
IBRAM X. KENDI: Not in the least bit. Americans are taught that a racist is an evil, horrible, bad person, that it's in someone's bones, that someone literally is a racist. That's their identity. And so that's not me. I'm a good person.
DOKOUPIL: Sometimes our conversations started easy. How do you define racism?
MAN #4: Racism is the unjust treatment of people of a different color, national origin, that is either from face-to-face interaction but more importantly institutionalized.
DOKOUPIL: Things could quickly grow uncomfortable. You defined racism the way you did. Do you fit into that in any way?
MAN #4: I'm not — I — I — I don't hold those views. And you know, nor so associate with people who do.
DOKOUPIL: Most struggle to explain racial inequality. The typical black family in America has much less money than the typical white family. How do you explain that?
MAN #5: That's — that's tough.
WOMAN #3: Some of it is opportunity. Some of it is what is — some of it's your drive. Some of it's the way you're brought up.
WOMAN #4: There's a lot of black people that don't get to where they can get -- I don't know what to say about, you know, intelligence-wise, if they're not as intelligent as white people. I mean, there are a lot that are very intelligent.
DOKOUPIL: And almost no one used the term racism.
WOMAN #5: I'm confused about when we use the word racism.
DOKOUPIL: The term, you're uncomfortable with the term.
WOMAN #5: In some ways, I am. Yeah.
KENDI: I think what's striking is “racist” has almost become like the N-word. Like the R-word in which so many Americans think in and of itself it's a bad word to say when it's a descriptive term.
DOKOUPIL: It’s a term that could be applied to just about anyone at times. People can have a racist thought, for example. But that doesn't mean they are racist.
KENDI: Yeah. A racist isn't an identity. It is not who a person is. It's what a person is being. And I think we have to recognize that people hold both racist and anti-racist ideas, and people are deeply contradictory.
DOKOUPIL: In this moment of national reflection, we did find some Americans trying to iron out those contradictions. In society and in themselves.
WOMAN #6: I do believe in the systemic racism that we have in America. So as a white person, I would say of course I probably do play a part in that racism.
DOKOUPIL: So, I mean this in the kindest possible way, I'm right now talking to a racist.
WOMAN #6: Technically. Although -- right, I would never just say I am racist and I hate people based on the color of their skin. Of course I would not want to do that. But I also think it's misleading when people say "I don't see color." You have to see color. You have to respect the differences. You have to understand different cultures in order to grow out of the racism that you've been taught.
DOKOUPIL: There's a lot there, guys.
GAYLE KING: Yes, there is.
DOKOUPIL: One thing that leaps out is when you define racism as something between people, you leave out society. And if we leave out society, we're never going to change it, Gayle.
KING: Yes, I have to say, I lost my hearing after that one woman said, well, “There are some of them that are intelligent.” But what I like, Anthony, is that a white person, white Tony Dokoupil is talking to other white people. Because I think if a black person had tried that, it makes people even more defensive and they think it's confrontational. These conversations are so important to have.
ANTHONY MASON: It's very important for white people to ask each other these questions right now.
KING: Yes. It was so well done.
MASON: And the whole issue of racism and that word has — white people have a very hard time with it. They don't understand it, as Tony pointed out.
KING: I hate color blind. Because of course you see color. I say color-brave or be color-conscious. I hate color blind. Very well done, Tony Dokoupil.
