In an interview with former presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson, CNN's New Day co-host Chris Cuomo repeatedly tried get the prominent Donald Trump supporter to backtrack on his RNC speech in which he linked Hillary Clinton to known radical Saul Alinsky. Carson made the link by discussing the long friendship between Clinton and the Fabian-Socialist, who dedicated his book, Rules for Radicals, to Lucifer.
The quote Carson specifically referenced by Alinsky was:
“Lest we forget at least an over the shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology and history (and who is to know where mythology leaves off and history begins - or which is which), the very first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom - Lucifer.”
Cuomo continually tried to downplay Clinton’s association with Alinsky, but showed early on in the interview he wasn’t fit to discuss that topic since he had no real knowledge of the book.
BEN CARSON: First of all, recognize that this is a very famous book, Rules for Radicals. On the dedication page, you acknowledge Lucifer in an admiral way, a radical who gained his own kingdom. If you read the book -- I don't know if you've ever read it.
CHRIS CUOMO: What I did was I read the studies of the book, just to figure out where you're going with this. Please continue.
Cuomo’s lack of knowledge and obvious failure to read the one page in the book where Alinsky discussed his admiration for Lucifer led to him continually trying to water down the friendship Clinton and Alinsky had for several years*:
BEN CARSON: Okay, what I am saying is that we are talking about electing to the presidency an individual who embraces someone who obviously is not someone who's consistent.
CHRIS CUOMO: I'm just saying, it's when she was in college.
BEN CARSON: Are you saying she no longer believes that?
CHRIS CUOMO: I'm saying I've never heard her mention the man as a mentor in all of her years in public office. I'll ask. There's no question about that. We'll go to the campaign today. I can predict what their answer is going to be. But I want to ask about why you saw that as the best way to go in the convention. I was wondering if it was just because you got to use Lucifer.
It’s ironic though, Cuomo claimed Clinton never mentioned her relationship with Alinsky, but a simple look into the book itself -- the same book Clinton did in fact write her college senior thesis paper on -- states “true revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, they cut their hair, put on suits, and infiltrate the system from within.” Then again, maybe Cuomo would have understood that if he had actually read the book.
The full transcript of the interview can be seen below.
CNN NEW DAY
7/20/16
[ON SCREEN HEADLINE: BEN CARSON LINKS HILLARY CLINTON TO LUCIFER]
CHRIS CUOMO: Joining us right now, former presidential candidate, Dr. Ben Carson. Thank you for joining us. It's been a while. So last night you went out there, you gave your speech, crowd was with you to be sure, but you seemed to perform a little bit of a miracle. You seemed to have come up with the one attack on Hillary Clinton that not everybody wanted to fully embrace. I kept hearing on the floor, “I don't think she embraces Lucifer, I think this was just a –“then they would go on with their explanation. Why so heavy handed trying to tie Hillary Clinton to Lucifer?
BEN CARSON: First of all, recognize that this is a very famous book, "Rules for Radicals." On the dedication page, you acknowledge Lucifer in an admiral way, a radical who gained his own kingdom. If you read the book -- I don't know if you've ever read it.
CHRIS CUOMO: What I did was I read the studies of the book, just to figure out where you're going with this. Please continue.
BEN CARSON: Please read the book. It's very interesting how it uses controlled anarchy in order to change us from a democratic republic to a socialist society. And I don't think those things are consistent with the principles and the basis of this nation.
CHRIS CUOMO: But you seem contextually to make it like Hillary Clinton is carrying it around in her back pocket. It's something she mentioned in 1969 in a thesis.
BEN CARSON: Well, here's the point. We all have people who are our mentors. We all have people we admire. As a college student at Wellesley, she was on a first-name basis with Saul Alinksy. He offered her a job, but she decided to go to law school. They were very close. You look at some of the letters. But I also had a mentor. It was my mother. You know, she had a difficult upbringing, but she never let me be a victim. And the person that I am today has a lot to do with who I admire and who is my role model.
CHRIS CUOMO: You also said in this campaign many times, don't judge me, Ben Carson, by my worst moments from a hundred years ago. You've many times contextualized criticisms of you as saying, when was that, how long ago was that, why can't you judge me on what's going on now? You do not give Hillary Clinton the benefit of that analysis.
BEN CARSON: Actually, I do, because in the real world, particularly in business, if someone is doing something that is inappropriate, what you do is you maybe give them remedial training or you demote them. Here we have a situation where you had a person who was the first lady who was United States senator who was the secretary of state who doesn't have the knowledge or the judgment to treat classified information or even understand what it is in an appropriate way that doesn't jeopardize the country. Instead of sending her for remedial training and demoting her, they're saying, let's promote her to the highest position in the land.
CHRIS CUOMO: Legitimate argument. Certainly different than blaming her for what she wrote in college. That's why I'm asking you. I get that Lucifer is a powerful term, especially with a group that is faith sensitive, but do you feel it was going too far in retrospect?
BEN CARSON: Again, when you look at the principles that are espoused by Christ, by Christianity, and you look at what's espoused by evil, and then you look at things like killing babies, you look at things like redefining marriage, away from what the biblical definition is, I think that there's pretty good consistency there.
CHRIS CUOMO: Don't you think it's a little dangerous to tie gay marriage, equality of marriage, respect of lgbt with being evil? Don't you think that's a little too far, once again?
BEN CARSON: Again, that's your interpretation.
CHRIS CUOMO: Well, how am I wrong?
BEN CARSON: Okay, what I am saying is that we are talking about electing to the presidency an individual who embraces someone who obviously is not someone who's consistent.
CHRIS CUOMO: I'm just saying, it's when she was in college.
BEN CARSON: Are you saying she no longer believes that?
CHRIS CUOMO: I'm saying I've never heard her mention the man as a mentor in all of her years in public office. I'll ask. There's no question about that. We'll go to the campaign today. I can predict what their answer is going to be. But I want to ask about why you saw that as the best way to go in the convention. I was wondering if it was just because you got to use Lucifer.
BEN CARSON: It's perspective. When I told Alan combs about this in his program the other day, he said, oh, that was a joke. They just put that in there for a joke.
CHRIS CUOMO: I'm not saying that. It was something personally important to her in 1969. I think there's no question about that. It's just what you choose to use as criticism, especially as somebody who has said many times, don't judge me by something that long ago, judge me by right now.
BEN CARSON: Except you have to also use your brain. You say, if she believed that at that time and now you look at her actions, you look at what she advocates, the killing of babies, the dissolution of the traditional family, those are consistent, quite frankly.
CHRIS CUOMO: So that's the case against her. In terms of the case for Trump, are you happy with what's going on in the convention in terms of making a constructive case for why Donald Trump should be president in terms of positive for him?
BEN CARSON: Absolutely. I see a tremendous sense of coalescing going on. And that's only going to continue. I think even those individuals who are in the never trump camp will at some point begin to understand that it's not about their feelings. It's about the future of this country. And this is a pivotal election because we're deciding if we're going to be a country by the government or a country by the people. I'm saying they have a philosophy that is antithetical to the philosophy to the founding of this nation.
CHRIS CUOMO: Dr. Ben Carson, thank you for being on New Day.
*author's note: Original publishing stated Clinton knew Alinsky for several decades, when in fact it was only several years due to his death in 1972, meaning from recorded correspondence Clinton only knew Alinsky for four years.
