Monday marked the three-year anniversary of the suicide attack near the Abbey Gate at the Kabul airport in Afghanistan that resulted in the death of 13 U.S. service members. As part of their coverage of the anniversary, CNN’s Phil Mattingly, filling in as host of The Lead, brought on White House National Security Communications Advisor John Kirby to press him on administration’s lack of a proper remembrance. But while Kirby issued poor explanations, Mattingly refused to demand better answers.
Mattingly’s first question was about how the Biden/Harris administration only published statements online while former President Trump was meeting with the families of the service members. “The visual this morning of the former president being at Arlington National Cemetery for the wreath laying. The current President, current Vice President both put out a paper statements, but I’m just wondering, is that — is that enough given what happened three years ago?” he wondered.
Kirby responded with a mealy-mouthed excuse about how, “Neither going to Arlington nor any individual paper statement is ever going to be enough to repay these families…” And he ridiculously claimed the PACT Act as the administration’s direct support for families torn apart by the incompetencies of the Biden/Harris administration (Click “expand”):
Neither going to Arlington nor any individual paper statement is ever going to be enough to repay these families and to try to make sure that they know their supported and that their loved and they’re respected and admired for what they’re going through and nothing’s going to assuage their grief.
Nothing we can say, nothing we can do, no flowers you can lay, is going to take that pain away and that’s why the President, the Vice President, the First Lady, the Second Gentleman have been working so hard for their entire time in office to make sure that we meet, as President Biden said, that sacred obligation to our troops, our veterans, and their families through the PACT Act and through any number of other — ever since joining forces, making sure that our troops — particularly those who fought in Afghanistan and those who didn’t come home that their families have that love and that support that they so rightly deserve.
A proper response by Mattingly would have been to agree that there’s nothing at could be done to make the families whole, but one camp’s actions were objectively more meaningful than the other’s.
Instead, Mattingly followed up with a blistering question about why President Biden has never said the names of the service members his poor decisions killed. “There’s been a lot of frustration that he hasn’t said their names publicly. Does he see this as — as he understands the pain the family members have reflected related to him?” he noted, a fact not often admitted on CNN.
What came out of Kirby’s mouth was disgraceful. He refused to give a reason for why Biden has refused to say the names of the people who were killed on his watch. Instead, Kirby bloviated about how Biden was the only one who knew how they felt:
I don’t think you're ever going to find a commander in chief of the United States of America and our military, who doesn’t bet — who better understands what grief is like, what mourning is like, what sorrow is like, what frustration is like then than Joe Biden. He knows exactly what grief feels like. Now, it’s a different kind of grief. I understand that. We’re talking about men and women who were lost in a combat role at — through a bloody terrorist act. That’s different. I get it, but you’re not going to find a commander-in-chief who doesn’t better understand and can feel the grief that they’re going through and to make sure that they know that they’re going to continue to have the support that they deserve.
At no point did Mattingly press for an actual reason for why their names have never crossed Biden’s lips.
The final question was about Kirby’s comments on Fox News from April of 2023 when he insanely proclaimed: “For all this talk of chaos, I just didn’t see it. Not from my perch.” “It was that last line that drew some criticism on Capitol Hill from Republicans, but also from those — others who were involved in that…but on that last line, do you wish you had kind of framed differently?” he asked.
Mattingly sat back and did nothing as Kirby proceeded to lie about there being “the opposite of chaos on that field” and use the service members who were there as a shield; suggesting that any criticism of the chaos was somehow an attack on those individuals (Click “expand”):
What I was referring to was the question was asked of me and that’s — that’s missing in this soundbite. The question was asking me just a blanket sort of bumper sticker adjectives slapped on the withdrawal. I hear it all the time. Chaotic and I don’t apologize for the fact that from where I was sitting at the Pentagon and watching how hard our troops and our State Department civilians and our intelligence community was doing to get that airport up and running and to get it functional and to get more than 120 folks out, you — they created order out of disorder, Phil, They created, you know, the opposite of chaos on that field to try to get those folks out.
Now, yes, of course, outside the field, there was — there was lots of confusion and chaos and violence. I recognize that and you can find me saying that but in any number of interviews and press conferences, but I make no apologies at slapping back that criticism that everything about the withdrawal was faulty and everything was wrong and that — that does a disservice to the men and women who so bravely and courageously tried to get so many people out and did so successfully. At one point, Phil, during the withdrawal there was a C-17 team full of people taken off about every hour. Fact, less than every hour at one point during that withdrawal. That’s not chaos to me.
So, I understand that criticism I’m coming under there. I think you have to look at the question as well, not just my answer yet. Could I been more contextual? Probably. I — I — I — I freely admit that there are times when I’m not as contextual as possible, but I make no apologies and no bones and I don’t regret saying that because it deeply offends me as a veteran myself that we’re just slapping a bumper sticker on the whole withdrawal and I think that does a disservice to all the brave men and women, civilian and military who pulled that withdrawal off.
For what it’s worth, as Kirby was claiming there was no chaos at the actual airfield, the producers in the studio were flipping between different videos of the mobs of Afghans rushing the cargo planes trying to takeoff and clinging onto the side, to later fall to their deaths.
The transcript is below. Click "expand" to read:
CNN’s The Lead
08/26/24
4:16:37 p.m.
PHIL MATTINGLY: As Donald Trump marked three years since the Abbey Gate attack in Kabul, Afghanistan that killed 13 U.S. service members, he also lit up his social media feed, calling it “the most embarrassing moment in U.S. history.”Now, President Biden, Vice President Harris both issued statements vowing to remember those lives lost and to counter terrorist threats without troops in combat zones. I want to bring in retired rear admiral John Kirby, assistant to the president and White House national security communications advisor. Admiral, always good to see you.
I want to start with — I know you’re not gonna get into campaign trail stuff and I’m not asking you about the politics of this, but the idea of — the visual this morning of the former president being at Arlington National Cemetery for the wreath laying. The current President, current Vice President both put out a paper statements, but I’m just wondering, is that — is that enough given what happened three years ago?
JOHN KIRBY: Neither going to Arlington nor any individual paper statement is ever going to be enough to repay these families and to try to make sure that they know their supported and that their loved and they’re respected and admired for what they’re going through and nothing’s going to assuage their grief.Nothing we can say, nothing we can do, no flowers you can lay, is going to take that pain away and that’s why the President, the Vice President, the First Lady, the Second Gentleman have been working so hard for their entire time in office to make sure that we meet, as President Biden said, that sacred obligation to our troops, our veterans, and their families through the PACT Act and through any number of other — ever since joining forces, making sure that our troops — particularly those who fought in Afghanistan and those who didn’t come home that their families have that love and that support that they so rightly deserve.
MATTINGLY: You know, Admiral, it’s been striking to me, listening to the families of many of those that were killed at Abbey Gate and their frustrations with the current President and I know in talking to advisors throughout the course of the last three years, that has been a painful issue for him, personally. But it remains true that he hasn’t reached out to them since being at the — when the bodies were brought home. There’s been a lot of frustration that he hasn’t said their names publicly.Does he see this as — as he understands the pain the family members have reflected related to him?
KIRBY: I don’t think you're ever going to find a commander in chief of the United States of America and our military, who doesn’t bet — who better understands what grief is like, what mourning is like, what sorrow is like, what frustration is like then than Joe Biden. He knows exactly what grief feels like. Now, it’s a different kind of grief. I understand that. We’re talking about men and women who were lost in a combat role at — through a bloody terrorist act. That’s different. I get it, but you’re not going to find a commander-in-chief who doesn’t better understand and can feel the grief that they’re going through and to make sure that they know that they’re going to continue to have the support that they deserve.
MATTINGLY: I want to ask you, you know, there have been several reviews of the bombing at Abbey Gate. There’s a Pentagon report that insists that a single blast caused the deaths there. But there’s also video captured by a Marine’s GoPro camera that shows large bursts of gunfire, not just short as the Pentagon had noted. Our colleague Nick Paton Walsh has done a lot of reporting on this and I wanted to play a bit of his exchange with U.S. military personnel who spoke anonymously to CNN. Take a listen.[Cuts to video]
ANONYMOUS VETERAN: It was multiple. There’s no doubt about that. It wasn’t onesies and twosies. It was — it was mass volume of gunfire.
NICK PATTON WALSH: Down towards the Abbey Gate sniper tower from roughly an area not too far away from where the blast had gone off? That’s where you heard the shooting emanate from.
ANONYMOUS VETERAN: It would have been around that area, yes.[Cuts back to live]
MATTINGLY: Is there any concern inside the white house that the reviews haven’t accurately captured what actually happened on that day?
KIRBY: Well, we know that the Pentagon did an exhaustive review after Abbey Gate and then went back and did more and interviews because other information from — from veterans, from folks that were there made public some — some concerns, particularly about whether or not they had a visual on the bomber and were denied a chance to shoot at them, for instance.And the Pentagon went back and interviewed additional veterans that they hadn’t talked to him for the first investigation. And still, they had not been able to corroborate this idea that there was gunfire against Afghan civilians, as was portrayed in the CNN reporting.
So, the Pentagon’s looked at this pretty exhaustively. And we know and they’ve said so, Phil, that, you know, if additional information comes to light in weeks and months ahead, that — that would compel them to take another look and then they’d be open to doing that.
MATTINGLY: Admiral, before I let you go, you received blowback last year for comment that you made after one of the administration’s reviews came out —
KIRBY: Yeah.
MATTINGLY: — and I want to give you a chance to respond it, but first this is what it was. Listen.[Cuts to video]
KIRBY [TO PETER DOOCY] [on 04/06/23]: Proud of the fact that we got more than 124,000 people safely out of Afghanistan? You bet. Proud of the fact that American troops were able to seize control of a defunct airport and get it operational in 48 hours? You bet. Proud of the fact that we now have about 100,000 Afghans, our former allies and partners living in this country and working towards citizenship? You bet. Now, does that mean that everything went perfect in that evacuation? Of course not. [SCREEN WIPE] For all this talk of chaos, I just didn’t see it. Not from my perch.[Cuts back to live]
MATTINGLY: It was that last line that drew some criticism on Capitol Hill from Republicans, but also from those — others who were involved in that. I don’t ask about the impassioned point you were making before that last time, but on that last line, do you wish you had kind of framed differently?
KIRBY: Look, I think the line’s being taking a little bit at a constant — context and look, I’d be the first one to admit that I could always be more contextual in answering questions. I don’t regret saying.Look, I had said many times and I did too briefings a day during the withdrawal at the Pentagon and I was nothing but honest and forthcoming about that the things that didn’t go well in that withdrawal and yeah, of course, there was chaos, of course there was confusion, there was blood, there was violence at different times during that evacuation and you can find me saying that on the record at numerous times during the withdrawal and afterward.
What I was referring to was the question was asked of me and that’s — that’s missing in this soundbite. The question was asking me just a blanket sort of bumper sticker adjectives slapped on the withdrawal. I hear it all the time. Chaotic and I don’t apologize for the fact that from where I was sitting at the Pentagon and watching how hard our troops and our State Department civilians and our intelligence community was doing to get that airport up and running and to get it functional and to get more than 120 folks out, you — they created order out of disorder, Phil, They created, you know, the opposite of chaos on that field to try to get those folks out.
Now, yes, of course, outside the field, there was — there was lots of confusion and chaos and violence. I recognize that and you can find me saying that but in any number of interviews and press conferences, but I make no apologies at slapping back that criticism that everything about the withdrawal was faulty and everything was wrong and that — that does a disservice to the men and women who so bravely and courageously tried to get so many people out and did so successfully. At one point, Phil, during the withdrawal there was a C-17 team full of people taken off about every hour. Fact, less than every hour at one point during that withdrawal. That’s not chaos to me.
So, I understand that criticism I’m coming under there. I think you have to look at the question as well, not just my answer yet. Could I been more contextual? Probably. I — I — I — I freely admit that there are times when I’m not as contextual as possible, but I make no apologies and no bones and I don’t regret saying that because it deeply offends me as a veteran myself that we’re just slapping a bumper sticker on the whole withdrawal and I think that does a disservice to all the brave men and women, civilian and military who pulled that withdrawal off.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, unquestionably a heroic effort on ground during those couple of weeks. And I should note, Admiral, you’ve never avoided any question that I’ve asked to over the years, even those that I’m sure you didn’t want me to ask you and I’ve always appreciate did that as well. Admiral John Kirby, your time. Always appreciate, sir. Thank you.
KIRBY: Thanks, Phil.
