Not long after Tuesday’s joint press conference between Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba announcing new sanctions on Russia for invading Ukraine, CNN’s Jake Tapper was joined on The Lead by the latter. There, Tapper called out the sanctions as weak, less than what Ukraine was asking for, and barely a deterrent to Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Tapper jumped right to the chase by noting that Kuleba “called on the world to exert all of its economic might to punish Russia for actions in the past and actions in the future,” but pointed out that sanctions on “two banks and against some oligarchs” did not constitute “the world's economic might.”
“Is it fair to say you want more and you want more as soon as possible in terms of sanctions,” he asked of Ukraine’s top diplomat.
“Absolutely. No sanctions will be enough until Russian boots withdraw from Ukrainian soil,” Kuleba agreed. “That's why I said in the press conference that we like what we saw today but it certainly won't be enough. And this strategy has to be continued.”
Tapper even seemed skeptical that Biden’s sanctions would have any sort of effect that would deter Putin from advancing beyond the lines held by separatist forces in Donbas (Click “expand”):
TAPPER: I mean, you like what you saw today, but do you think today's sanctions will deter Putin from doing anything, from entering Ukrainian parts of the Donbas territory, from staging any other invasion of Ukraine, will it stop them doing anything at all?
KULEBA: President Putin questioned the resolve and ability of the West to impose sanctions on him. His view according to how we understand it was that the West is talking the talk but is not walking the walk. So, today's sanctions are important as a message that it’s real, it’s happening, and there will be more of them. And it is not only the United States who imposed sanctions on Russia today, it was also the European Union, the United Kingdom. And that's why we’re talking about a broad international coalition that is focused on deterring Putin.
After asking what the next line Putin would have to cross for a new round of sanctions to be imposed, Tapper pivoted to questioning if Biden had done too little up until this point. Asking: “Do you think … President Biden should have imposed these sanctions weeks if not months ago?”
Kuleba gave a diplomatic response. He began by saying “there were good, legitimate reasons to impose sanctions on Russia for what it had done before and for its recent escalation,” but now that Putin has invaded “this question becomes obsolete[.]” “So, we have to be focused on today instead of analyzing … yesterday,” he said.
And near the end of their interview, Tapper wanted Kuleba to address the American people and answer questions as to why the U.S. should care and get involved. At the top of that list was security promises the U.S. made for Ukraine to give up their Soviet-era nuclear stockpile:
First, in 1994 Ukraine abandoned its nuclear arsenal which was the third in size in the world. The United States, Russia after the collapse of Soviet Union, and Ukraine. This was the three top countries assessing nuclear arsenal. We abandoned it in return for security guarantees issued in particular by the United States. So, we were promised that if anyone attacks us, the United States will be among countries who will be helping us.
He also warned that Putin has ambitions that reach significantly farther than Donbas or even Ukraine’s eastern border; and if these ambitions go unchecked, it will be a sign to other such people in the world they can make moves that destabilize.
And to Tapper’s final question of what he would like to see targeted with a new round of sanctions, whether it be “oligarchs” or “the entire Russian economy crippled,” Kuleba gave the cheeky answer of: “Yes.”
The transcript is below, click "expand' to read:
CNN’s The Lead
February 22, 2022
5:52:30 p.m. EasternJAKE TAPPER: I understand your country is in a difficult time right now. I couldn't help but notice that you called on the world to exert all of its economic might to punish Russia for actions in the past and actions in the future. I know you're happy about the sanctions that were imposed today against the two banks and against some oligarchs, but that is not all of the world's economic might. Is it fair to say you want more and you want more as soon as possible in terms of sanctions?
DMTYRO KULEBA (Ukrainian foreign minister): Absolutely. No sanctions will be enough until Russian boots withdraw from Ukrainian soil. This is fundamental principle, that we have to keep putting pressure on Russia. And we in Ukraine proceed from the fact that the sanctions announced today by President Biden is just the beginning of the process of deterring President Putin and making him withdraw.
That's why I said in the press conference that we like what we saw today but it certainly won't be enough. And this strategy has to be continued.
TAPPER: I mean, you like what you saw today, but do you think today's sanctions will deter Putin from doing anything, from entering Ukrainian parts of the Donbas territory, from staging any other invasion of Ukraine, will it stop them doing anything at all?
KULEBA: President Putin questioned the resolve and ability of the West to impose sanctions on him. His view according to how we understand it was that the West is talking the talk but is not walking the walk. So, today's sanctions are important as a message that it’s real, it’s happening, and there will be more of them. And it is not only the United States who imposed sanctions on Russia today, it was also the European Union, the United Kingdom. And that's why we’re talking about a broad international coalition that is focused on deterring Putin.
I don't know what is on his mind and how he will act overnight. But it’s important that he saw the readiness to adopt decisions swiftly and the decisions which inflict damage on him.
(…)
5:55:29 p.m. Eastern
TAPPER: Do you think that Biden -- President Biden should have imposed these sanctions weeks if not months ago?
KULEBA: Well, this was a position of Ukraine until literally yesterday that there were good, legitimate reasons to impose sanctions on Russia for what it had done before and for its recent escalation.
However, since yesterday this question becomes obsolete because the invasion began, the sanctions were imposed, the first sanctions of a broader package of sanctions prepared were imposed. So, we have to be focused on today instead of analyzing tomorrow – or yesterday.
(…)
5:57:47 p.m. Eastern
TAPPER: Many Americans might be watching this interview right now and they might be wondering, “why should the United States care. This is thousands of miles away. Ukraine is not a NATO ally, even if you want to be.” What's your message to them? What's your message to Americans who wonder what's the interest of the American people in this fight?
KULEBA: Three points. First, in 1994 Ukraine abandoned its nuclear arsenal which was the third in size in the world. The United States, Russia after the collapse of Soviet Union, and Ukraine. This was the three top countries assessing nuclear arsenal. We abandoned it in return for security guarantees issued in particular by the United States. So, we were promised that if anyone attacks us, the United States will be among countries who will be helping us.
Second, what is happening in Ukraine is not only about Ukraine. President Putin challenges Euro-Atlantic order. And if the West fails in Ukraine, the next target of Putin will be one of the NATO members on its eastern flank.
Third, if Putin succeeds in Ukraine, other players across the globe who want to change rules, who want to bypass the United States, they will see this is possible—
TAPPER: China.
KULEBA: --that the West is uncapable [sic] of defending what it stands for.
So, I think all in all, the U.S. citizens, Americans should be interested in keeping the world order as it stands and the future of this order is being decided right now in Ukraine.
(…)
