Don Lemon boosted gun control on Monday's CNN Tonight during a panel discussion segment with Democratic Rep. Jim Himes, liberal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, and Richard Feldman of the Independent Firearms Owners Association. Lemon played up how the "the police commissioner of New York City said...that Congress was completely controlled...by the NRA, and that's why no sensible gun laws have been passed," and asked Himes, "Do you agree with that?" Toobin also asserted that gun rights supporters "control the entire Republican Party at this point....And that's why we're not getting gun control." [video below]
The anchor first turned to the liberal congressman from Connecticut and asked for his response to the Senate rejecting "a bill to restrict guns to people on the terror watchlist; and one to expand background checks." Rep. Himes replied, in part, that "those of us who look at America today, awash in guns...at the end of the day, the law is on our side. The Constitution is on our side — and what I mean by that is that there is no such thing as an absolute right that doesn't have some safety regulations, or other regulation around it."
Lemon followed up by asking Feldman, "What's wrong with denying some on the terror watchlist a gun?" The guest pointed out that "the problem is, who gets on the watchlist and how does one get off? Most of your guests will recall that former Senator Ted Kennedy was on the 'no-fly' list." This sparked Toobin's contention about the supporters of the Second Amendment:
JEFFREY TOOBIN: ...[T]he people who support gun control...are interested in the issue...but they think about a lot of different issues. They think about climate change. They think about the economy. The people in this country who care about gun rights — who want to preserve guns — it's the single most important issue to them; and they vote based on who will protect their right to bear arms. And they control the entire Republican Party at this point. The Republican Party is not a party that supports any restrictions on the right to bear arms. And that's why we're not getting gun control.
Lemon then asked his softball question that cited the New York City police commissioner. Rep. Himes responded by blasting the NRA and by agreeing with the CNN analyst's point. However, he also added a lament about how the Constitution grants each state two senators and how this sets up an obstacle to gun control supporters in Congress: [video below]
REP. JIM HIMES, (D), CONNECTICUT: Look, I don't think the NRA really controls anybody, but what the NRA does is and...Wayne LaPierre is just a master of this — is that they are just a 24/7 fear machine. So, you know, before this president was even sworn in seven year ago, Wayne LaPierre was out there telling people that his secret and hidden agenda is to take away your guns....It's just this constant fear that gets the populous really whipped up.
And Jeffrey is right. Now, you've got a relatively small group of voters who are fabulously intense. And the thing that Jeffrey didn't mention is that you've got a United States Senate, where North Dakota and Montana — two lightly-populated, rural states — still have two senators each, whose votes count just as much as the two senators that represent 40 million Californians. So you put that altogether, and you've got one heck of struggle on your hands.
The CNN journalist boosted Himes and Toobin's point in his next question to Feldman: "You've listened to both gentlemen here and Jeffrey Toobin saying...it's really about not the majority of the Republican Party, but a small group in the Republican Party who control...the party over that one issue." Feldman underlined that "if we focused a little better on getting them out of the hands of those we all agree shouldn't have them, we could move this agenda forward better than we've succeeded to date." Toobin retorted with a pro-gun control rhetorical question:
TOOBIN: ...[I]t's not just in whose hands. The question is, should an AR-15 semi-automatic weapon be in any civilian's hands?...that's a question in of itself, putting aside...in whose hands? I mean, that's an important part of the debate. So, it's not just in whose hands, it's, what guns are available?
Toobin later asserted that "it's very easy to nitpick whatever people propose, but what happens is because gun rights supporters object to any specific proposal — they can speak generally, like Mr. Feldman is...they stop everything — just like they stopped these proposals."
Lemon ended the segment with one final pro-gun control question: "Mr. Feldman, I have a good question for you, which I ask everyone...why is sensible gun legislation the only thing that's off the table when everything else is on the table? Why is that the only thing that's off the table?" Feldman replied by noting that "criminals steal 600,000 firearms every year. Are we serious — the terrorists wouldn't be able to obtain some of those guns? And the shooter in Orlando went through a background check; had a Florida concealed-carry license; and was vetted twice by the FBI."
The full transcript of the panel discussion segment from the June 20, 2016 edition of CNN Tonight:
DON LEMON: First to you, Congressman: let's talk about — the Senate failed to pass a bill to restrict guns to people on the terror watchlist; and one to expand background checks. What's your response on that?
REP. JIM HIMES, (D), CONNECTICUT: Well, it is disappointing, of course, coming after, particularly, the work that the Connecticut delegation did, with Senator [Chris] Murphy's filibuster and — you know, that we weren't able to very quickly make some progress here. But what was said earlier is exactly right. Look, there's a negotiation under way; and it's not a negotiation over the, probably, 10 to 20 things we should do for gun safety, but it is a negotiation. So, look, if [Susan] Collins can succeed — we can get something done — that's a good thing.
And look, those of us who look at America today, awash in guns — weekly, if not daily violence — you know, at the end of the day, the law is on our side. The Constitution is on our side — and what I mean by that is that there is no such thing as an absolute right that doesn't have some safety regulations, or other regulation around it. And of course, as you point out, public sentiment is strongly on the side of people like me who say, 'hey! I support the Second Amendment, but we are going to have certain limits and certain regulations that do a lot more to keep people safe.' In the end, that point of view prevails — even if it doesn't prevail quite as rapidly as we think it should.
LEMON: Richard, what's wrong with denying some on the terror watchlist a gun?
RICHARD FELDMAN, PRESIDENT, INDEPENDENT FIREARM OWNERS ASSOCIATION, INC.: The problem isn't denying terrorists a gun. The problem is, who gets on the watchlist and how does one get off? Most of your guests will recall that former Senator Ted Kennedy was on the 'no-fly' list — the most recognizable senator in the United States at the time — and he had a devil of a time getting himself off that list. If he couldn't do it, how would any legitimate citizen get themselves off?
LEMON: Jeffrey Toobin, do you take umbrage to that?
JEFFREY TOOBIN: Well, look, I mean, I think the words that have not been uttered yet are there — they sound sort of academic — but it's 'preference intensity' — and that is the people who support gun control — the people who want more restrictions — they are interested in the issue and they think, you know — and they — but they think about a lot of different issues. They think about climate change. They think about the economy.
The people in this country who care about gun — gun rights — who want to preserve guns — it's the single most important issue to them; and they vote based on who will protect their right to bear arms. And they control the entire Republican Party at this point. The Republican Party is not a party that supports any restrictions on the right to bear arms. And that's why we're not getting gun control. It's not because of — I mean, it's — the 90 to 10 [percent] is misleading, because the 10 percent are so passionate, and they control so many — so many votes.
LEMON: That goes directly to you, Congressman, and something that the police commissioner of New York City said — was that Congress was completely controlled — our lawmakers are controlled — by the NRA, and that's why no sensible gun laws have been passed — that can be passed. Do you agree with that?
HIMES: Yeah. It's a little more complicated than that. Look, I don't think the NRA really controls anybody, but what the NRA does is and — you know, Wayne LaPierre is just a master of this — is that they are just a 24/7 fear machine. So, you know, before this president was even sworn in seven year ago, Wayne LaPierre was out there telling people that his secret and hidden agenda is to take away your guns — okay? Now, people in North Dakota and Montana, two states that use advisedly, are saying, 'Gosh! Well, this new president is going to take away my guns.' And then, there's the — you know, there are criminals at your door. The only way you're going to be safe is if you're armed. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. It's just this constant fear that gets the populous really whipped up.
And Jeffrey is right. Now, you've got a relatively small group of voters who are fabulously intense. And the thing that Jeffrey didn't mention is that you've got a United States Senate, where North Dakota and Montana — two lightly-populated, rural states — still have two senators each, whose votes count just as much as the two senators that represent 40 million Californians. So you put that altogether, and you've got one heck of struggle on your hands.
LEMON: Richard, you've listened to both gentlemen here and Jeffrey Toobin saying — you know, this is — it's really about not the majority of the Republican Party, but a small group in the Republican Party who control — who vote on one issue, and they control the party over that one issue.
FELDMAN: You know, I think so much of our debate really misses the — the problem. The problem is never the gun per se, but always in whose hands are the guns. And if we focused a little better on getting them out of the hands of those we all agree shouldn't have them, we could move this agenda forward better than we've succeeded to date.
LEMON: I think that's a—
TOOBIN: Well, but that's part of the issue. That's—
LEMON: I mean, that's a very good point—
HIMES: Don, I got to take exception to that. You know—
LEMON: Jeffrey first; and then, Congressman — Jeffrey, go ahead.
TOOBIN: Well, the — the question is — I mean, it's like, it's — it's not just in whose hands. The question is, should an AR-15 semi-automatic weapon be in any civilian's hands?
LEMON: Right—
TOOBIN: I mean, that's — that's a — that's a question in of itself, putting aside — you know, in whose hands? I mean, that — that's an important part of the debate. So, it's not just in whose hands, it's, what guns are available?
LEMON: Go ahead, Congressman.
HIMES: Well, I mean, I'm glad to hear Mr. Feldman say that we should do something to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them. That would point the way to universal background checks, which we do not have today; and it would point the way to a deal on things like terrorist watchlists.
But I just — I have to register an objection to this idea that he articulated, that is the same old argument — that it's not the gun that kills the people, it's the person who kills the people. You know, every country on this planet — we don't have any more people with mental health issues than Russia or China or Germany or the U.K. We don't have more people who are violently inclined. We just don't. Our people don't look radically different than the people of any other country on this planet, with respect to their propensity for violence. And yet, we have a massive gun violence problem, with 30,000 Americans dying every single year, because it is so easy — whether it's a — it's momentary intense desire to commit suicide; whether it's a drunken argument at home, with a firearm right there on the dining room table. When you are awash in guns, the passion, the anger, the disposition for violence will lead to where we are today in America — which is just unbelievable gun violence.
LEMON: Richard, we don't have a difference in mental health — other countries are no different — but what we do have is more guns is what he's saying.
FELDMAN: Well, you know, we have a unique experience in this country as Americans. If we're going to have the fight over guns, this issue is not going to go forward. There are things we could do in this country to ameliorate the problem, but we'd all rather fight over things we disagree about, rather than to move forward on those things we do agree on. Today's vote is one of them. Look at — look at all the Democrats that voted against the [John] Cornyn amendment. You know, it moved the agenda forward.
Terrorists shouldn't be able to get guns, but the question is, who's going to put these people on the list? What if somebody decided to put every Hispanic, every Muslim on the terrorist list? This would be atrocious. It would be abominable. This is America. We are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty — not put on some watchlist by the government and remove your civil liberties. That's wrong—
LEMON: I'm not sure I understand the analogy, Jeffrey Toobin, but I'll — I give you the last word.
TOOBIN: Well, it's — it's very easy to nitpick whatever people propose, but what — what happens is because gun rights supporters object to any specific proposal — they can speak generally, like Mr. Feldman is — but the fact is, they stop everything — just like they stopped these proposals.
LEMON: Well, not the last word — Mr. Feldman, I have a good question for you, which I ask everyone. So if everything — why is sensible gun legislation the only thing that's off the table when everything else is on the table? Why is that the only thing that's off the table?
FELDMAN: Well, defining sensible gun legislation — everyone is together for keeping guns out of the wrong hands. Because someone says, 'well, my proposal is sensible and reasonable' doesn't make it so — just because you say it. There are so many things we could do in this country, but we don't do.
Let's face it: criminals steal 600,000 firearms every year. Are we serious — the terrorists wouldn't be able to obtain some of those guns? And the shooter in Orlando went through a background check; had a Florida concealed-carry license; and was vetted twice by the FBI.
LEMON: Okay, last word. (laughs) Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate you joining us.
