Put on your tinfoil hats! On MSNBC’s Morning Joe Monday, host Joe Scarborough and several guests got together to discuss some conspiracy theories surrounding President Trump, including whether he will attempt to pardon himself before he leaves office in January.
After suggesting that the FBI should assign a counter-intelligence team to monitor Donald Trump after he leaves office to stop him from betraying the United States, Morning Joe’s wacky discussion panel then turned to the next ludicrous conspiracy: whether President Trump will pardon himself before he leaves office.
According to our sleuth Scarborough, Trump will try to pardon himself from the unsubstantiated accusations that liberal media have been crying about for the last four years (a.k.a. the Russia Conspiracy): “Here, Donald Trump is pardoning people that were involved in a possible conspiracy that he—he could have been involved in. We have—you know, we had all these administration officials at the beginning of the Trump presidency lying through their teeth, left and right, uh about their contacts with Russia.”
For a legal perspective, Scarborough asked Dave Aronberg, a regular guest and reliably Trump-hating State Attorney of Palm Beach County, Florida:
Yeah, and so Dave, let me ask you about—of course, the question a lot of people are asking right now, uh, the President's power to pardon himself. There’ve been a lot of theories swirling around Washington, D.C., would the President try to pardon himself? Some Trump insiders, uh, believe that the court wouldn't uphold that, so they're wondering whether Trump, uh, resigns from office a day before, uh, and—and allows Pence to pardon him and his entire family. Umm, we can't speculate as to that point, but any—any idea on whether the Supreme Court would allow a president to pardon himself?
Aronberg, doubtful that Trump would have the constitutional ability to grant himself a pardon, still ended on a "positive" note, confident that he will somehow be prosecuted after leaving the White House:
But the greatest existential threat to this president is the case in Manhattan by my counterpart, Cyrus Vance Jr., who has been pursuing President Trump's taxes and will get ‘em. And once he gets them, he can use them to charge the President criminally. And you know, he’s been doing this investigation for a couple years now. You don't engage in a multiyear investigation based on nothing. You’ve gotta have evidence to get this far. And those state prosecutions are pardon-proof. The president cannot pardon himself. No one can pardon him from a state prosecution, which is another reason why the job of state attorney, or district attorney, is the best job in the world. Because the attorney general, not your boss. The president, not your boss.
Although Joe Biden won the 2020 presidential election, Scarborough and his friends on MSNBC continue to show their insecurity. At this rate, their obsession with Donald Trump will continue long after he leaves the White House.
This conspiracy junk was made possible, in part, by Lincoln and Shark Vacuums. Tell them what you think about the program by clicking on the links.
Read the transcript below:
Morning Joe
11/30/20
7:03:37 AM
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let's talk about, uhh, the pardon power. Here, Donald Trump is pardoning people that were involved in a possible conspiracy that he—he could have been involved in. We have—you know, we had all these administration officials at the beginning of the Trump presidency lying through their teeth, left and right, uh about their contacts with Russia. Uh, at the top of that list was a guy who admitted that he did it twice, uh, in—in front of court and—and apologized. Donald Trump said he had to fire him, because he lied to the Vice President and lied to the FBI. And yet, at the end of the term, after spending three years sort of nodding and winking to Flynn that if he didn't cooperate he’d get a pardon, what does he get? A pardon.
DAVE ARONBERG [STATE ATTY, PALM BEACH CO., FLA.]: Joe, I'm troubled by it as well. I don't think we’ve seen any precedent for an American president to give a pardon to someone who can implicate him in a crime, and Trump knows it looks bad, which is why he didn't want to have to do it himself. He wanted the attorney general, Bill Barr, to issue a DOJ pardon, which is just to drop the entire case against Michael Flynn entirely, and that's what he did. But, it was so egregious, so unethical, so unprecedented, that Judge Emmet Sullivan refused to go along, and in that sense, the rule of law was upheld, because Judge Sullivan forced the President's hand—forced his hands to get dirty. ‘Cause the president's pardon power is broad, and it is in the Constitution, unlike the DOJ pardon, which is totally unethical. Uh, but President Trump knows it made him look bad; that's why he issued the pardon on the eve of Thanksgiving. And it also could hurt him substantively, because now that he issued that pardon, Flynn can be called into congress to testify under oath about Trump and Russia, and not receive the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination, because he has no threat of incrimination, because he was pardoned. So this opens up an entirely new can of worms for the President, and if Flynn lies under oath, he can still be charged with perjury, which is why the President wanted Bill Barr to do it, instead of himself.
SCARBOROUGH: Yeah, and so Dave, let me ask you about—of course, the question a lot of people are asking right now, uh, the President's power to pardon himself. There’ve been a lot of theories swirling around Washington, D.C., would the President try to pardon himself? Some Trump insiders, uh, believe that the court wouldn't uphold that, so they're wondering whether Trump, uh, resigns from office a day before, uh, and—and allows Pence to pardon him and his entire family. Umm, we can't speculate as to that point, but any—any idea on whether the Supreme Court would allow a president to pardon himself?
ARONBERG: Joe, I don't think so. This issue has never been decided by the courts, but if you look at the Constitution, it says the president has the power to grant pardons. Generally when you grant something, it's to other people, not to yourself. Plus, there’s an exception for impeachment, which implies that the Constitution didn't want the president to pardon himself if he couldn't get out of impeachment, uh, for doing so. So, I think the courts are gonna rule against the President for this. I think also, it may not even matter, ‘cause he can try to resign early and let Pence pardon him. Or try to pardon himself. But the greatest existential threat to this president is the case in Manhattan by my counterpart, Cyrus Vance Jr., who has been pursuing President Trump's taxes and will get ‘em. And once he gets them, he can use them to charge the President criminally. And you know, he’s been doing this investigation for a couple years now. You don't engage in a multiyear investigation based on nothing. You’ve gotta have evidence to get this far. And those state prosecutions are pardon-proof. The president cannot pardon himself. No one can pardon him from a state prosecution, which is another reason why the job of state attorney, or district attorney, is the best job in the world. Because the attorney general, not your boss. The president, not your boss.
