Promoting his new book, Univision anchor and amnesty advocate Jorge Ramos wandered into a verbal cage match on the Fox News Channel Wednesday evening with host Sean Hannity, refusing to answer Hannity’s questions and accusing the FNC host and his supporters of unfairly portraying all illegal immigrants as criminals.
Right from the start, Ramos wouldn’t even answer Hannity’s question regarding if he supported deporting illegal immigrants with further criminal records.
“Let me just say that the vast majority of immigrants and the vast majority of documented immigrants, Sean, are not criminals. As a matter of fact, all the reports I've seen and the reports that I've read clearly conclude that they are less likely...to be criminals and to be behind bars,” Ramos complained as Hannity accused him of “giving me your talking points.”
Hannity mentioned his 2014 trip to the U.S./Mexico border in Mexico and how a briefing by then-Texas Republican Governor Rick Perry told him that there were “642,000 crimes committed by illegal immigrants against Texans alone” between October 2008 and July 2014.
Instead of addressing that statistic, Ramos deflected and falsely equated this argument to white people being responsible for the Las Vegas shooter’s actions (click “expand):
RAMOS: I'm not here to defend real criminals, but we cannot criminalize the whole immigrant population simply because of what of what a few have done.
HANNITY: I never —
RAMOS: It’s not fair.
HANNITY: Did I do that?
RAMOS: If I would say that —
HANNITY: Did I do that?
RAMOS: — all the —
HANNITY: Did I do that?
RAMOS: No.
HANNITY: I’m — no —
RAMOS: If I would say that all the white population is responsible for what Stephen Paddock did in Las Vegas. That would be completely unfair. It’s exactly the same thing here, Sean.
HANNITY: Let me give you one statistic. Illegal aliens accounted for 13 percent of all non-immigration related federal sentences in 2016. Now, that is a significantly higher percentage than the 3.5 percent estimated population —
RAMOS: But put it in perspective —
HANNITY: — of illegal — wait a minute. You just got done saying all immigrants don't commit crimes, I will agree with you. But that is a much higher percentage than the rest of the population —
RAMOS: No. I have —
HANNITY: — and of illegal immigrants in the country.
Hannity wondered if Ramos thought Governor Perry and immigration officials lied to him, but Ramos refused to answer, emphasizing that “you have to put this in perspective.”
When Hannity shot back with “you sound like you don't care about the Americans that are victims of crimes” or “respect the rule of law,” Ramos argued that he lives in this country and thus he does care.
The bout then ratcheted up again as Ramos recklessly tried to put words in Hannity’s mouth (again, click “expand”):
RAMOS: And you have to put those numbers in perspective because you’re getting the impression —
HANNITY: 642,000 in perspective?
RAMOS: — to your audience —
HANNITY: Give me the perspective.
RAMOS: — you’re giving the impression to your audience, Sean, that most immigrants and most undocumented immigrants are criminals. And you know what? They don't want to get in trouble with the law.
HANNITY: Why are you putting words in my mouth?
RAMOS: And they don’t get in —
HANNITY: Why would you do that?
RAMOS: No. They don’t want to get in trouble with the law. They don't want to get in trouble with the law.
HANNITY: Then why —
RAMOS: They want to prosper and help the rest of America.
HANNITY: Okay.
RAMOS: They are here on one — they are here because of us.
Ramos accused the FNC host of not “tell[ing] your audience the truth...that immigrants are less likely to be criminals than born in the United States,” so Hannity asked him to address families like Kate Steinle’s. The Univision anchor expressed sympathy but quickly reverted to how illegal immigrants were far more behaved than American citizens.
The amnesty proponent defended California’s move to become a sanctuary state in defiance of the federal government since America has “the most anti-immigrant President we’ve ever had since the 1950s” who has, in Ramos’s mind, killed DACA.
Hannity correctly put Ramos in place by reminding him that the President has not only stated his support for DACA but wanted to make it law.
As a final act of public service and civic hygiene, Hannity closed out the interview by challenging Ramos to a town hall in front of the families of those who have been murdered by the sorts of criminal aliens whose deportation Ramos believes to be “a horror.”
Here Ramos showed his true stripes by dodging Hannity's entreaties and quibbling over who got to attend, the so-called tough stand-taker and fearless questioner was exposed as actually being afraid of taking questions from a hot crowd, not unlike the one at CNN's wild Parkland town hall.
Apparently, being a liberal means never having to answer tough questions.
[Thanks to MRC Latino's Jorge Bonilla for his contributions to this blog]
To see the segment’s full transcript from FNC’s Hannity on March 7, click “expand.”
FNC’s Hannity
March 7, 2018
9:24 p.m. EasternATTORNEY GENERAL JEFF SESSIONS,: It cannot be the policy of a great nation to reward those who unlawfully enter its country with legal status, Social Security, welfare, food stamps, work permits and so forth. How can this be a sound policy? Meanwhile those who engage in a process lawfully and patiently and wait their turn are discriminated against, it seems, at every turn.
SEAN HANNITY: Alright, that was more of the attorney general Jeff sessions speaking today in California about our immigration policy. Joining us now, the author of Stranger: The Challenge of a Latino Immigrant in the Trump Era, Univision anchor Jorge Ramos. Jorge, welcome back, good to see you, sir.
JORGE RAMOS: Great to be here. Thank you.
HANNITY: Alright, let's just for a second, put aside DACA, let’s put aside chain migration, let's put aside the visa lottery. I want to talk specifically about criminal aliens in the United States. Those that came here illegally, those that committed crimes, those that are immigration officers, ICE and others, are trying to be deported. Do you support that?
RAMOS Let me just say that the vast majority of immigrants and the vast majority of documented immigrants, Sean, are not criminals. As a matter of fact, all the reports I've seen and the reports that I've read clearly conclude that —
[CROSS-TALK]
HANNITY: Okay, Jorge —
RAMOS: — they are less likely to —
HANNITY: — Jorge, we can’t have —
RAMOS: — commit — no, it is important.
HANNITY: — a discussion if you start giving me your talking points.
RAMOS: They concluded that they’re less likely —
HANNITY: Jorge —
RAMOS: — to be criminals —
HANNITY: — these are talking points.
RAMOS: — and to be behind bars. Those are the facts, Sean.
[CROSS-TALK ENDS]
HANNITY: I went down to the border, I'll give you facts cause I was on horseback, all-terrain vehicle, I was in helicopters, I was in boats and I sat through a security briefing in Texas with Rick Perry. 642,000 crimes committed by illegal immigrants against Texans alone. Here's my question pretty putting all those issues aside. Those that commit crimes in America, including some violent crimes, even murder, those criminal aliens — do you support having them removed from this country?
RAMOS: Absolutely. I have — I have no problem with that. I'm not here to defend real criminals, but we cannot criminalize the whole immigrant population simply because of what of what a few have done.
[CROSS-TALK STARTS]
HANNITY: I never —
RAMOS: It’s not fair.
HANNITY: Did I do that?
RAMOS: If I would say that —
HANNITY: Did I do that?
RAMOS: — all the —
HANNITY: Did I do that?
RAMOS: No.
HANNITY: I’m — no —
[CROSS-TALK ENDS]
RAMOS: If I would say that all the white population is responsible for what Stephen Paddock did in Las Vegas. That would be completely unfair. It’s exactly the same thing here, Sean.
HANNITY: Let me give you one statistic. Illegal aliens accounted for 13 percent of all non-immigration related federal sentences in 2016. Now, that is a significantly higher percentage than the 3.5 percent estimated population —
RAMOS: But put it in perspective —
HANNITY: — of illegal — wait a minute. You just got done saying all immigrants don't commit crimes, I will agree with you. But that is a much higher percentage than the rest of the population —
RAMOS: No. I have —
HANNITY: — and of illegal immigrants in the country.
RAMOS: I have — I have different numbers. The — according to the Migration Policy Institute, less than three percent of undocumented immigrants commit felonies and that, in this case, it has to do with fake IDs. These percentages — much lower than the rest of the U.S. population, so basically my concern, Sean, is that you are — and President Trump and many of his followers — are criminalizing the immigrant population who is not responsible for the economics problems that we have and whose not responsible —
HANNITY: I'm not talking about the economic problems.
RAMOS: — for the majority of the crimes in this country.
HANNITY: But you know something, Jorge? You never went — so you're saying the people that I sat with, those were security people, and law enforcement, border agents, I sat in a meeting and I'll put it up on the screen.
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL [to HANNITY][on 07/10/14]: Criminal aliens have been responsible for about 642,000 offense — criminal offenses.
[SCREEN WIPE]
HANNITY [on 07/10/14]: 642,000 crimes?
THEN-REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR RICK PERRY (Tex.)[to HANNITY][on 07/10/14]: Since 2008 in the State of Texas.
HANNITY [on 07/10/14]: In Texas alone?
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL [to HANNITY][on 07/10/14]: Yes.
LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL [to HANNITY][on 07/10/14]: By over 200,000 individuals that have a criminal history reflects that they were committed over 642,000 crimes.
PERRY [to HANNITY][on 07/10/14]: That's the cost of not securing the border.
[CROSS-TALK STARTS]
HANNITY: Are you literally saying to me that they're lying because they're not and the problem is —
RAMOS: No, what I’m telling you —
HANNITY: — you sound like —
RAMOS: — is that you —
HANNITY: — no, last point.
RAMOS: — no, you have to put this in perspective.
HANNITY: You sound like you don't care about the Americans that are victims of crimes —
RAMOS: Of course I do.
HANNITY: — that — that by people that —
RAMOS: Of course I do.
HANNITY: — that don’t respect our law.
[CROSS-TALK ENDS]
RAMOS: Of course I do care. I live in this country. My children live in this country and you have to put those numbers in perspective because you’re getting the impression —
[CROSS-TALK STARTS]
HANNITY: 642,000 in perspective?
RAMOS: — to your audience —
HANNITY: Give me the perspective.
RAMOS: — you’re giving the impression to your audience, Sean, that most immigrants and most undocumented immigrants are criminals. And you know what? They don't want to get in trouble with the law.
HANNITY: Why are you putting words in my mouth?
RAMOS: And they don’t get in —
HANNITY: Why would you do that?
RAMOS: No. They don’t want to get in trouble with the law. They don't want to get in trouble with the law.
HANNITY: Then why —
RAMOS: They want to prosper and help the rest of America.
HANNITY: Okay.
RAMOS: They are here on one —
HANNITY: I would argue —
RAMOS: — they are here because of us.
[CROSS-TALK ENDS]
HANNITY: — and I’ll concede your point, but you’re wrong on another point. You're right. The vast majority and having been to the border 13 times from anywhere to the Rio Grande to San Diego and having been in the drug warehouses, I would argue, yeah, they want to leave the property that many face in Mexico and have more opportunity in America. I'm saying doing it legally, but there are six — you're not answering my question. 642,000 crimes committed against Texans alone in a seven year period. That's not your family, Jorge. Where is your sympathy for those victims of crime and why shouldn’t we take those that are committing crimes and to rid them tomorrow?
RAMOS: I — I — again, I agree with you completely. I’m not here to defend real criminals. I'm not here to defend real criminals. But the, if you just put those numbers and you deport —
[CROSS-TALK STARTS]
HANNITY: If you come here illegally, you are a criminal.
RAMOS: — and then you put them in context —
HANNITY: You’re breaking the law.
RAMOS: — and you don't tell the people — you don’t tell your audience the truth, the fact that immigrants are less likely to be criminals
HANNITY: That's not factually accurate.
RAMOS: — than born in the United States.
HANNITY Address Kate Stanley's family.
RAMOS: No —
HANNITY: Cause there are a lot of families —
RAMOS: — yeah.
HANNITY: — that sadly have been victimized by those people here illegally that commit more crimes. What you say to her family?
RAMOS: I — I cannot even imagine —
HANNITY: Cannot imagine.
RAMOS: — what they're feeling —
HANNITY: Neither can I.
RAMOS: — what they’re going through. I — I cannot even think about that.
HANNITY: So, let’s control the border —
RAMOS: There’s no excuse for that.
HANNITY: — and vet people.
RAMOS: There is — there is no excuse for that and —
HANNITY: No excuse.
RAMOS: Exactly. But again, if you say that all undocumented immigrants are responsible for these crimes. It is simply not —
HANNITY: Who said that?
RAMOS: — it is —
HANNITY: Nobody's saying that.
RAMOS: — it is simply not right.
HANNITY: Nobody's saying that.
RAMOS: You’re inferring that immigrants —
HANNITY: No, I'm not inferring.
RAMOS: — are — yeah —
HANNITY: I speak very directly.
RAMOS: — inferring that and you’re presenting immigrants as —
HANNITY: No.
RAMOS: — some criminals just as President Trump did.
HANNITY: I am saying it’s a higher percentage.
RAMOS: Exactly as President Trump did and that is — that is not the percentage.
[CROSS-TALK ENDS]
HANNITY: I am saying to the mayor of Oakland, stop aiding and abetting criminals that committed more crimes, those that are here illegally, and committed crimes on top of that and I think you should want that mayor to do the same. Stop —
RAMOS: If you’re talking about —
HANNITY: — stop.
RAMOS: — sanctuary cities. I see sanctuary cities are saying no and California is saying no —
HANNITY: I am saying we have federal laws that ought to be obeyed. Absolutely
RAMOS: — to the most anti-immigrant President we’ve ever had since the 1950s.
HANNITY: So, you don't believe in the rule of law then?
RAMOS: I do believe in the rule of law, but —
HANNITY: You don’t believe in it?
RAMOS: — somebody — but somebody has to help immigrants, one. And second, this policy established by President Trump and by his administration is already helping a lot of bad hombres. Really.
HANNITY: President Trump, who supported DACA. President — your President Trump, who you —
RAMOS: No, no. I disagree.
HANNITY: — don’t like, supported DACA —
RAMOS: President Trump, who killed DACA
HANNITY: — and fixing DACA
RAMOS: Let’s not forget — let's not forget that the President who killed DACA is called Donald Trump —
HANNITY: Excuse me?
RAMOS: — not Barack Obama.
HANNITY: He was the one that was willing to —
RAMOS: The President who killed DACA is Donald Trump.
HANNITY: — make it law. Let me ask a question.
RAMOS: Sure.
HANNITY: Will you go down with me and do a town hall in Texas and we’ll invite the 642,000 families, those that would like to come that were victims of crime and listen to their stories?
RAMOS: Let me — I’ll — let me — let me take you on.
HANNITY: Will you come?
RAMOS: Yes. I’ll do a show with you and then we’ll decide who’s going to be attending that show, but I think —
HANNITY: Oh, no, no, no. I told you who’s attending.
RAMOS: — this conversation.
HANNITY: So that means no.
RAMOS: This conversation is interesting and I appreciate that you giving me the opportunity just to have it.
HANNITY: I gotta run.
RAMOS: But we’ve got to continue. I understand. Alright, thank you, Sean.
