On Wednesday, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis gave a speech where he separated fact from fiction on his education policies and MSNBC’s Alex Wagner responded with some of the very fake news he meant to debunk. For added effect, she also labeled his policies “fascist.”
On to discuss was New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg who lamented, “So, what Chris Rufo, who is one of DeSantis's appointees to the board of New College, and who's also been a, kind of, chief ideologue of the war first on Critical Race Theory then on what they called gender ideology, now on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, he very consciously sees this as a product – as a project of taking over liberal institutions and turning them towards conservative ends.”
Wagner didn’t bother to ask why public institutions are liberal, but she did know that trying to change that is fascism:
It’s like the ultimate gaslighting to basically be steamrolling fascist policies into the state, and doing so under the banner of freedom and rights. That's what I don't get. How is this being made palatable to people who understand what fascism and authoritarianism are? And the fact that it’s a rising dark tide across the globe. And then see that home as it's being presented under the auspices of, you know, reasserting your individual rights. How, how can they possibly be packaging it as such?
Goldberg admitted she didn’t know the answer, but not knowing anything about conservatives didn’t stop her from claiming, "He justifies these policies that are far more threatening to free speech than anything we've ever seen in our lifetime and so I think it’s by demonizing, you know, all sorts of things that they put under this umbrella of wokeism, as a kind of totalitarian menace."
Wagner then chimed in to add, “Yeah! Literally in the phrase of one of the bills is ‘don't say,’ I mean, right, that's not freedom of speech!”
Not only are age-appropriate curriculum policies not violations of free speech, the law literally does not say that, which is ironic as Wagner transitioned to DeSantis defending himself, “DeSantis seems like he was on the defensive today a little bit defending his policies and I wonder if you think people are beginning to check him on this or whether you think the momentum is in his favor and this is going to be replicated elsewhere?”
Despite the fact that Wagner just spread fake news, Goldberg replied by lamenting, “what DeSantis does is very similar to what some of these anti-abortion lawmakers do, is when the implications of their policies become clear, and we see for example, you know, women being turned away when they're having miscarriages. They say, oh that's just liberals misinterpreting the laws.”
Because they do! No pro-life law prohibits miscarriage care. Still, Goldberg added:
And so he, sort of, pretended that these examples that we say from Florida, books being either taken out of classrooms, or covered up and, you know, very, kind of, innocuous biographies of people of color being removed from the shelves. He'll say that this is just a misinterpretation of the law. When the law is written with such vagueness that it's kind of terrorizing to people who have to worry about running afoul of it and so I do think that he-- yes it's very hard to justify, you know, the kind of images of empty bookshelves.
Naturally, Wagner and Goldberg omitted the part where DeSantis claimed the book review policy is mostly about getting porn out of school libraries, not banning books about Roberto Clemente.
This segment was sponsored by Golden Corral.
Here is a transcript for the March 8 show:
MSNBC Alex Wagner Tonight
3/8/2023
9:50 PM ET
MICHELLE GOLDBERG: So, what Chris Rufo, who is one of DeSantis's appointees to the board of New College, and who's also been a, kind of, chief ideologue of the war first on Critical Race Theory then on what they called gender ideology, now on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion, he very consciously sees this as a product – as a project of taking over liberal institutions and turning them towards conservative ends—
ALEX WAGNER: And it's explicit about it!
GOLDBERG: Yes.
WAGNER: What I don't get—it’s like the ultimate gaslighting to basically be steamrolling fascist policies into the state, and doing so under the banner of freedom and rights. That's what I don't get. How is this being made palatable to people who understand what fascism and authoritarianism are? And the fact that it’s a rising dark tide across the globe. And then see that home as it's being presented under the auspices of, you know, reasserting your individual rights. How, how can they possibly be packaging it as such?
GOLDBERG: So, sort of why people buy it is hard for me to say.
WAGNER: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: But I think what they've done, sort of in this astonishing way, is gone from posing as defenders of free speech against, you know, quote unquote “wokeness,” and Ron DeSantis is-- he has, you know, has a Stop Woke Act. He talks about, you know, Florida is where woke goes to die. His, you know, primary political project is basically crushing what he calls wokeness.
WAGNER: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: Which he has presented as a threat to free speech and so in order to crush this threat to free speech, he justifies these policies that are far more threatening to free speech than anything we've ever seen in our lifetime and so I think it’s by demonizing, you know, all sorts of things that they put under this umbrella of wokeism, as a kind of totalitarian menace.
WAGNER: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: It licenses this unbelievable barrage of illiberalism.
WAGNER: Yeah! Literally in the phrase of one of the bills is “don't say,” I mean, right, that's not freedom of speech!
I do want to talk about how this is a model that's being replicated elsewhere in the country, and where you see—where you see--the greatest kinship between what DeSantis is doing and with what DeSantis is doing.
Is it Youngkin in Virginia, is it South Carolina, is it New Hampshire? I mean, do you really think-- DeSantis seems like he was on the defensive today a little bit defending his policies and I wonder if you think people are beginning to check him on this or whether you think the momentum is in his favor and this is going to be replicated elsewhere?
GOLDBERG: Well, I actually think both at the same time. Right? Because what DeSantis does is very similar to what some of these anti-abortion lawmakers do, is when the implications of their policies become clear, and we see for example, you know, women being turned away when they're having miscarriages. They say, oh that's just liberals misinterpreting the laws.
WAGNER: Right.
GOLDBERG: And so he, sort of, pretended that these examples that we say from Florida, books being either taken out of classrooms, or covered up and, you know, very, kind of, innocuous biographies of people of color being removed from the shelves. He'll say that this is just a misinterpretation of the law.
When the law is written with such vagueness that it's kind of terrorizing to people who have to worry about running afoul of it and so I do think that he-- yes it's very hard to justify, you know, the kind of images of empty bookshelves.
At the same time it doesn't -- and kind of the war on wokeness didn’t work very well for Republicans in the midterms, but nevertheless you see that huge energy around DeSantis. The energy is because Republicans and conservatives see him, kind of, attacking their enemies. That's why it's a plausible contender for president. So, I don’t see how he backs off on it.
