On Friday's New Day, during a discussion of why violence by Muslims is more likely to be labeled as "terrorism" in contrast with racially motivated violence like the Charleston church massacre, CNN co-anchor Chris Cuomo at one point claimed that "bigotry" in part makes people more likely to attach the word "terrorism" to violence by Muslims.
After guest and University of North Carolina Professor Charles Kurzman suggested that some on the political right are reluctant to label those with a similar ideology to themselves as terrorists when they commit violence, Cuomo responded:
Yes, except -- and you are right, I certainly was seeing it, and I'm sure you are as well, that certain people reserve "terrorism" only for Islamist extremists, and that's part of the bigotry that we're dealing with here in our evolution of the understanding of the threat in America.
At one point, as if to suggest that Americans have more to fear from right-wing domestic terrorism than from terrorism by Islamic extremists, fellow guest and CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen cited numbers claiming that, since the 9/11 attacks, the number of Americans killed by right-wing extremists, at 48, has been greater than the number killed by radical Muslims which was recounted as 26.
Bergen did not offer an explanation for why the nearly 3,000 people killed on September 11, 2001, should be excluded from the count, since it proves that over the longer term, radical Muslims emanating mostly from abroad have shown the ability to inflict heavy casualties of a much greater magnitude.
Also absent from the discussion was the argument that, in contrast with shootings, bombings that are perpetrated by anyone are almost reflexively labeled as "terrorism." And, after the magnitude of the 9/11 attacks placed a high priority on fighting Islamic extremism, shootings perpetrated by Muslims with a similar ideology to the 9/11 hijackers are likely to be viewed as aftershocks of the 9/11 attacks and therefore more quickly viewed as part of the "terrorism."
Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the segment from the Friday, June 19, New Day on CNN from the 7:00 a.m. hour:
CHRIS CUOMO: All right, Evan, I'll take it from you. I mean, that's the frustration here. Charged with a felony, that means a lot. It would certainly mean a lot in a job interview, but it doesn't when you're getting a gun. The rules are sometimes too easy, especially in South Carolina.
What is clear here, however, is this is a hate crime -- but is it also terrorism? It would be easy to suggest that it is, yes, the answer by any definition. Jon Stewart took that on last night, and not with humor.JON STEWART CLIP #1: We've invaded two countries and spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives.
STEWART CLIP #2: We got to do whatever we can to keep Americans safe. Nine people shot in a church -- what about that? Hey, what are you gonna do? Crazy is as crazy is, right?
STEWART CLIP #3: Al-Qaeda, all those guys, ISIS -- they're not [BLEEP] compared to the damage that we can apparently do to ourselves on a regular basis.
CUOMO: And I'll tell you, he's saying what should be obvious but is resisted by many. Let's bring in CNN national security analyst and author of Manhunt: The Ten-Year Search for Bin Laden, Peter Bergen, and sociology professor at the University of North Carolina Charles Kurzman. He's also co-director of the Carolina Center for the Study of Middle East and Muslim civilizations. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us. Let's start with you, Mr. Bergen. Isn't this a clear act of terrorism? [PETER BERGEN recounts that the Charleston church massacre fits the definition of terrorism because the perpetrator had a political objective]
CUOMO: But the resistance to it has nothing to do with the law, now, does it? Yes, some people are referring to what you did, the idea of a political component to terrorism, but we almost always define that very broadly. And certainly this would fit into any definition. So, Mr. Kurzman, why do you think so many are resistant to calling this Charleston church massacre "terrorism"?
PROFESSOR CHARLES KURZMAN, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA: I think it's difficult for people to think that extremists who share their side of the political spectrum might engage in something so violent, and just as many Muslims object to having their whole community judged by the actions of this tiny, violent fringe. I think, just as well on the other side, you might see on the right people objecting to being judged or associated with fringe violent extremism.CUOMO: Yes, except -- and you are right, I certainly was seeing it, and I'm sure you are as well, that certain people reserve "terrorism" only for Islamist extremists, and that's part of the bigotry that we're dealing with here in our evolution of the understanding of the threat in America.
But they are also trying to push away the idea that this was so bad -- yes, it's bad, the guy killed, he's probably really deranged, you know, but, you know, all this emphasis on hate crime and making it about race and saying it's about terror, there's a resistance here that has nothing to do with reason.
And my question to you, Mr. Kurzman, as a sociologist, is you are pointing to it being about politics? Why wouldn't your instinct be to push this guy away as a terrorist because he doesn't reflect your politics?
KURZMAN: I think they are trying to distance themselves from him in that way, just as most Muslims distance themselves from extremism. But perhaps they could learn something from this survey that I've just conducted with colleagues. We surveyed law enforcement agencies all around the country and found that they report that the number one threat of violent extremism in their jurisdictions is from right-wing, anti-government white supremacist types of extremists and not from Islamic extremism.
CUOMO: We hear that all the time -- people don't care because they're, you know, focused on Islam now and the war on terror. Peter, we hear this -- extremist, right organizations -- people communicate that now hear as some kind of fight on the GOP, a slight. What are they not getting?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I mean, Professor Kurzman is absolutely right. I mean, if you look at the data, since 9/11, 48 Americans have been killed by extreme right-wing or racist or anti-government types. And we've seen about 26 Americans killed by jihadi terrorism. You know, people just have a hard time processing that. Obviously, 9/11 was, you know, one of the hinge events of American history, and so that has been the frame through which terrorism has been judged, but, you know, Professor Kurzman's research shows that, you know, the ordinary American policeman is concerned about, right-wing terrorism in many parts of the country because they are the people, by the way, who are getting killed. If you look at a lot of these attacks, it's police officers who are being targeted, whether it's in Las Vegas or other places around the country where we've seen these kinds of attacks of late.
CUOMO: Yesterday, when we were reporting that the FBI was looking at any connection this young man may have had to extremist groups and they were saying, you know, political right extremist groups, people were very upset: "Well, why can't they be left extremist political groups?" And I think, Mr. Kurzman, that it spoke to how politics is toxifying everything around us right now in our culture. Even something like this where race and hate crimes are something that are seen as a political issue. And do you think that might be driving the resistance of so many to define this as a hate crime, to define it as terrorism, even though it plainly is?
KURZMAN: Possibly, but let's not demonize politics. Politics is the life blood of our democracy, so let's not say it like a bad word. Also I'd like to point out that violent extremism of all sorts is a drop in the bucket of all forms of violence. Far less than one percent of the 14,000 murders we have each year in the United States occur because of ideological, political, or religious reasons. There's just a whole lot of violence out there. Most of it doesn't attract this kind of attention.
CUOMO: That's a strong point, and certainly that is something we need to deal with as well, although nobody seems to be that willing to.Mr. Kurzman, Mr. Bergen, thank you for the perspective on this. What do you think? Is it terrorism? And if you don't think it's terrorism, why not?
