Sparks flew and a temper flared during a heated argument between NBC political director Chuck Todd and Republican Senator Ted Cruz on Sunday’s Meet the Press. The former raged as the latter dismantled the combined narrative of congressional Democrats and the liberal media when it came to impeachment, media bias, and Ukraine. Here are the highlights.
After his guest dared to hint at President Trump’s tough on Russia policies, Todd was in disbelief. “Do you believe that the President did with Ukraine somehow was tough on Russia or didn't the President by just introducing all of this delayed aid play into the hands of Russia,” he demanded to know.
“Ha, ha, ha. You know, Chuck, substance matters,” Cruz laughed at his moderator as he proceeded to school (the first of many) him on how Trump had armed Ukraine to fight a hot war against Russia:
TED CRUZ: By any measure, the President's policy and this administration's policy has been tougher on Russia, and actually better for Ukraine than Obama's was.
Let me give you an example. You mentioned the Ukrainian aid. The Donald Trump administration gave lethal defensive aid to Ukraine: javelin missiles to take out Russian tanks. Do you know what? Throughout the Obama administration I repeatedly pressed President Obama to give lethal aid to Ukraine. I traveled to Ukraine. I went to the Maiden Square in Kyiv. And they needed lethal aid, but the Obama administration, they sent teddy bears and MREs. They wouldn't actually give weapons.
Shortly thereafter, Cruz brought up how “House Democrats put out a 55-page report, they called it a scholarly report that purports to say you don't have to prove a crime, you don't have to prove a law was violated to impeach a president.”
Todd began to scream over his guest to get him to stop exposing the Democrats. “Senator! That is exactly why the impeachment was written into the Constitution,” he proclaimed. He proceeded to defend the Democratic argument that no provable crime was needed, supposedly because, “That's exactly why the phrase ‘high crimes and misdemeanors’ is in there, because they did it before they even wrote our laws, sir!”
“So, high crimes or misdemeanors was a term of art that the framers used,” the Senator explained. He also pointed out how moving the goalpost was “tell” from Democrats. “You know, just a few weeks ago, their talking point was bribery, bribery, bribery, they're now admitting they can't prove a crime, they can’t prove a law was violated.”
Todd never explained how the lack of a provable crime was allowed by the Constitution. The document said “high crimes and misdemeanors,” but the U.S. justice system also said one was innocent until proven guilty.
Then, when Senator Cruz said that he believed “Hunter Biden got that position is because his daddy was vice president of the United States,” Todd put words in his guest’s mouth and bitterly declared, “So, you believe Ukraine meddled.”
For weeks, Todd and the rest of the liberal media had been pretending it was somehow a crazy fringe conspiracy theory despite their articles about it from 2017. So, when Cruz acknowledged that was what he believed, Todd was visibly shocked and the crew in his studio audibly laughed:
TODD: Do, you believe Ukraine meddled?
[Crosstalk]
TODD: Do you believe Ukraine meddled in the election in 2016.
CRUZ: I do. And I think there is considerable evidence.
TODD: You do?!
[Laughter from the studio]
TODD: You do?
CRUZ: And Chuck, let me say.
TODD: [Trips over words] Senator, this sort of strikes me as odd because you went through a primary campaign with this President.
Following Todd’s freak out, Cruz calmly called out the “game” he and the rest of “the media is playing” with those facts. “You've said the senators, sort of aghast, ‘do you believe Ukraine and not Russia interfered in the election?’ Now, that in a court of law would be struck as a misleading question. Of course, Russia interfered in our election. Nobody looking at the evidence disputes that,” he said.
To further back up his point, Cruz argued that the reason Todd the rest of the liberal media were now downplaying Ukraine’s meddling was that, “A, they were trying to get Hillary Clinton elected, which is what the vast majority of the media wanted anyway. And B, it's inconvenient for the narrative.”
Todd was obviously fuming and lashed out by asking the Senator if he read the intelligence reports that showed Russia meddled in 2016. Cruz schooled him again by noting that he did, and that he’s sat through many briefings when other countries tried to interfere as well.
“Russia has tried to interfere in our elections. China has tried to interfere in our elections. North Korea has tried to interfere in our elections. Ukraine has tried to interfere in our elections. This is not new, 2016 is not the first year they did it,” he said.
As further proof that Todd counted himself on the side of House Democrats, just before introducing Senator Cruz, he spoke with House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler (D-NY) and teed him up to question the validity of the 2020 election if Trump wasn’t removed from office by the Senate:
TODD: Let me ask this, if he is acquitted, do you believe we'll have a fair election in 2020?
NADLER: I don't know. The President, based on his past performance, will do everything he can to make it not a fair election. And that is part of what gives us the urgency to proceed with this impeachment.
TODD: Chairman Nadler, I’m going to leave it there. Thank you for coming on and sharing your views.
Todd was the same journalist that proclaimed himself to be the proper political “referee” America needed.
The transcript is below, click "expand" to read:
NBC’s Meet the Press
December 8, 2019
10:39:41 a.m. Eastern(…)
CHUCK TODD: By the way, [if] Pat Cipollone shows up tomorrow, you going to let him in? The President’s counsel.
REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY): He has said he's not showing up.
TODD: I understand that, but if he may change his mind. This is the President of the United States. You never know. He might be tweeting as you and I are speaking, “Hey, I'm sending my lawyer tomorrow.” You going to let him?
NADLER: We’d have to decide that. He is guilty at this point of the most blatant contempt of Congress.
TODD: Who’s guilty? The President you mean?
NADLER: No, Cipollone.
TODD: Cipollone?
NADLER: I don't mean as a crime,
TODD: Oh, okay.
NADLER: Just as the contempt dripping from the two letters, several letters he sent to us.
(…)
10:43:20 a.m. Eastern
TODD: Let me ask this, if he is acquitted, do you believe we'll have a fair election in 2020?
NADLER: I don't know. The President, based on his past performance, will do everything he can to make it not a fair election. And that is part of what gives us the urgency to proceed with this impeachment.
TODD: Chairman Nadler, I’m going to leave it there. Thank you for coming on and sharing your views.
(…)
10:45:43 a.m. Eastern
TODD: Do you believe that the President did with Ukraine somehow was tough on Russia or didn't the President by just introducing all of this delayed aid play into the hands of Russia?
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Ha, ha, ha. You know, Chuck, substance matters. By any measure, the President's policy and this administration's policy has been tougher on Russia, and actually better for Ukraine than Obama's was.
Let me give you an example. You mentioned the Ukrainian aid. The Donald Trump administration gave lethal defensive aid to Ukraine: javelin missiles to take out Russian tanks. Do you know what? Throughout the Obama administration I repeatedly pressed President Obama to give lethal aid to Ukraine. I traveled to Ukraine. I went to the Maiden Square in Kyiv. And they needed lethal aid, but the Obama administration, they sent teddy bears and MREs. They wouldn't actually give weapons.
(…)
CRUZ: You're right, he said -- At first he said, it was contempt and then he said, “Oh well, not really contempt. There's no crime.”
But let's be clear about the President since this is impeachment of the President. Yesterday, House Democrats put out a 55-page report, they called it a scholarly report that purports to say you don't have to prove a crime, you don't have to prove a law was violated to impeach a president. What garbage. What nonsense.
TOD: Wait a minute! That’s exactly—Senator!
[Crosstalk]
TODD: Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Senator! That is exactly why the impeachment was written into the Constitution. That's exactly why the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors” is in there because they did it before they even wrote our laws, sir! Before we had – so how do you know--
CRUZ: So actually what the constitution --
TODD: You are saying that-- that's exactly the opposite of what is true.
CRUZ: Chuck, actually what the Constitution says is you can impeach a president for treason, bribery, or high crimes and misdemeanors. It specifies it--
TODD [over Senator Cruz]: That’s right! And go head—
CRUZ: Hold on, Chuck, don't interrupt me.
TODD: What is a misdemeanor? Define misdemeanor.
CRUZ: So, high crimes or misdemeanors was a term of art that the framers used and you know it's striking, in poker, there is something called a “tell.” When a player has a really bad hand, they reveal it, it's a “tell.” What we saw last night was a tell from the House Democrats.
You know, just a few weeks ago, their talking point was bribery, bribery, bribery, they're now admitting they can't prove a crime, they can’t prove a law was violated. And here's why. Any president, any administration is justified in investigating corruption. And there was serious evidence of real corruption concerning Hunter Biden on the board of Burisma, the largest natural gas company in Ukraine.
(…)
10:49:38 a.m. Eastern
CRUZ: The reason Hunter Biden got that position is because his daddy was vice president of the United States.
TODD: So, you believe Ukraine meddled. Do, you believe Ukraine meddled?
[Crosstalk]
TODD: Do you believe Ukraine meddled in the election in 2016.
CRUZ: I do. And I think there is considerable evidence.
TODD: You do?!
[Laughter from the studio]
TODD: You do?
CRUZ: And Chuck, let me say.
TODD: [Trips over words] Senator, this sort of strikes me as odd because you went through a primary campaign with this President.
(…)
TODD: Let me ask you this. Is it not possible that this President is capable of creating a false narrative about somebody in order to help him politically?
CRUZ: Ha, ha, ha. Except that's not what happened. The President released the transcript of the phone call. You can read what was said in the phone call.
(…)
10:50: 45 a.m. Eastern
CRUZ: Chuck, let me point out a game that the media is playing. You know, a question that you have asked a number of people. You've said the senators, sort of aghast, “do you believe Ukraine and not Russia interfered in the election?” Now, that in a court of law would be struck as a misleading question. Of course, Russia interfered in our election. Nobody looking at the evidence disputes that.
TODD: But the President of the United States does.
CRUZ: Look. On the evidence, Russia clearly interfered in our election but here's the game the media is playing: because Russia interfered, the media pretends nobody else did. Ukraine blatantly interfered in our election.
(…)
10:52:03 a.m. Eastern
CRUZ: Chuck, chuck, I understand that you want to dismiss Ukrainian interference because, A, they were trying to get Hillary Clinton elected, which is what the vast majority of the media wanted anyway. And B, it's inconvenient for the narrative.
You know, it's hysterical, two years ago there was article after article of article the main stream media about Ukrainian interference in the election. But now, the Democrats have no evidence of a crime. No evidence of violating the law. And so suddenly Ukraine interference is treated as the media clutches their pearl, “oh my goodness, you can't say that.” Last week, Chuck, you called Senator John Kennedy basically a stooge for Putin.
TODD: I did not.
CRUZ: The press needs to stop being ridiculous and acting like they work for Adam Schiff.
TODD: So did you get the briefing from the intel community that said the Russian intelligence services are trying to actively use this Ukraine story to frame Ukraine for the Russian, the interference in 2016?
CRUZ: I have been in multiple briefings, year after year after year about foreign interference in our election. Russia has tried to interfere in our elections. China has tried to interfere in our elections. North Korea has tried to interfere in our elections. Ukraine has tried to interfere in our elections. This is not new, 2016 is not the first year they did it. And they’re going to keep trying. And so, we need to be strong in dealing with it. But the media needs to actually report facts. This is a kangaroo court in the House.
(…)
