On Tuesday night, CBS Evening News anchor Scott Pelley did little to hide his liberal bias when it came to supporting the release of the report by Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee detailing the use of “torture” by the agency on terrorists following the 9-11 terrorist attacks.
In addition to asking CBS News contributor and former acting CIA Director Mike Morell if he felt “ashamed” after the release of the report Tuesday, the program aired over two minutes of a 2007 interview Pelley conducted for 60 Minutes in which he clashed with former CIA Director George Tenet on the subject of enhanced interrogation methods. [MP3 audio here; Video below]
During the Morell interview, Pelley asked him if the CIA did indeed “mislead the White House and the Congress” and then, later, point-blank: “Are you ashamed?”
Morell responded that the CIA did not mislead anyone as “[t]he Democratic report is deeply flawed” with “[m]any of its main conclusions” being “simply not correct.” Further, he said that he did not feel ashamed or about the agency either as “this boils down, to me, to a question of morality” of whether “[w]as this the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do” and, in his view, “[t]his report never deals with that question.”
Earlier in the program, the 60 Minutes interview with Tenet from 2007 was shown because Tenet was “[t]he CIA Director who authorized enhanced interrogation techniques” in the moments and initial years following the attacks on September 11, 2001. In the interview, Pelley repeatedly took issue with Tenet’s assertion that “we don’t torture people” as the two argued back and forth, frequently speaking over one another.
Later, Tenet reminded Pelley that he was constantly finding out about suspected terrorist attacks on U.S. soil (as well as worrying about ones that weren’t known) and often was “struggling to find out where the next disaster is going to occur” since, before 9-11, “there was so much we did not know.” Pelley shot back immediately: “But what you’re essentially saying is some people need to be tortured.”
Clearly angered, Tenet responded that he didn’t say that at all and declared that “I’m not having a semantic debate with you” and instead was there to tell him what he believed. Towards the end of the clip, Pelley asked him whether he “lose[s] any sleep over” the agency’s usage of enhanced interrogation methods. Tenet responded by referencing the roughly 3,000 people killed on 9-11:
Of course, you do. Of course, you lose sleep over it. You're on new territory, but that's not the point. What's this tension? So the tension is, I've just lived through 3,000 people dying. This is not a clinical exercise. Maybe for you guys it's a clinical exercise. Not for me. 3,000 people died, friends died. Now I'm going to sit back – and then everybody says, you idiots don't know how to connect the dots.
The full transcript of the interview that aired on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley on December 9 can be found below.
CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley
December 9, 2014
6:39 p.m. Eastern
SCOTT PELLEY: One of the people who worked for George Tenet is Michael Morell, who later rose to become acting director of the CIA. Mr. Morrell is our CBS News senior security contributor, but tonight in this context, we want to be clear that Mr. Morrell is speaking in defense of the CIA. He oversaw preparation of the CIA rebuttal of the Senate report. Mr. Morrell, did the CIA mislead the White House and the Congress?
MIKE MORELL: Scott, not at all. The Democratic report is deeply flawed. Many of its main conclusions are simply not correct and much of the context of the times and much of the discussion that took place in the – inside the executive branch and with the Congress about this program is not in this report, Scott.
PELLEY: How are CIA officers reacting to this today?
MORELL: This is what I am most worried about, Scott. We – what we had here were CIA officers who were acting under the direction of the President of the United States and who were told by the Department of Justice at the time that this was legal, that this was not torture. Now the rug is being pulled out from under them. So now they're sitting there, thinking what is going to be pulled out from us in the future? And that is not a place you want your intelligence agency to be.
PELLEY: How much conversation was there ahead of time with the President and the senior leaders at the White House about what was going to be in bounds and what out of bounds?
MORELL: One of the things that's missing in the Democratic report is – is the fact that there were extensive discussions with the leadership of the two intelligence committees in Congress and when those discussions occurred, very early on in the program, Scott, there was not opposition. In fact, there were some members of Congress who didn't think we were going far enough.
PELLEY: We just heard John McCain describe this as shameful. Are you ashamed?
MORELL: No, I'm not, Scott. You know, Scott, this – this – this boils down, to me, to a question of morality. That's what we should be talking about here. Was this the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do? This report never deals with that question and this is not an easy question, Scott.
PELLEY: What's your answer?
MORELL: My answer is that I don't believe that anybody can honestly tell you, including President Obama, including Senator Feinstein– exactly what they would have done if they had been put in President Bush's shoes. I don't think anybody can tell you that.
PELLEY: Michael Morell, former acting director of the CIA, thank you very much.
MORELL: Thanks, Scott.
The transcript of segment that included the 60 Minutes interview from 2007 on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley on December 8 is transcribed below.
CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley
December 9, 2014
6:37 p.m. Eastern[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE CAPTION: Director Tenet]
SCOTT PELLEY: The CIA Director who authorized enhanced interrogation techniques was George Tenet. Here's what Tenet had to say on 60 Minutes in 2007 about whether the U.S. was engaged in torture.
FORMER CIA DIRECTOR GEORGE TENET: Well, we don't torture people. Let me say that again to you: We don't torture people. Okay.
PELLEY: Come on, George.
TENET: We don't torture people.
PELLEY: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
TENET: We don't torture people.
PELLEY: Waterboarding.
TENET: We don’t – I don’t –
PELLEY: It's torture.TENET: I don't talk about techniques and we don't torture people. Now, listen to me, [PELLEY MUTTERS] no, I want you to listen to me. So, the context is it's post-9/11. I've got reports of nuclear weapons in New York City. Apartment buildings that are going to be blown up. Planes that are going to fly into airports all over again. Plot lines that I don't know – I don't know what's going on inside the United States and I'm struggling to find out where the next disaster is going to occur. Everybody forgets one central context of what we lived through – the palpable fear that we felt on the basis of the fact that there was so much we did not know.
PELLEY: But what what you're essentially saying is some people need to be tortured.
TENET: No, I did not say that. I did not say that.
PELLEY: [AS TENET SAYS REPEATEDLY “I did not say that] You're telling me enhanced interrogation –
TENET: I did not say that. We do not – listen to me.
PELLEY: You called it in the book enhanced interrogation.
TENET: Well, that’s what we called it.
PELLEY: That's a euphemism.
TENET: I'm not having a semantic debate with you. I’m telling you what I believe.
PELLEY: Anybody ever die in the interrogation program?
TENET: No.
PELLEY: You're sure of that?
TENET: Yeah, in this program, that you and I are talking about, no.
PELLEY: Have you ever seen any of these interrogations done?
TENET: No.
PELLEY: Didn't you feel like it was your responsibility to know what you were signing off on?
TENET: I'm not a voier. I understand what I was signing off on.
PELLEY: Lose any sleep over it?
TENET: Of course, you do. Of course, you lose sleet sleep over it. You're on new territory, but that's not the point. What's this tension? So the tension is, I've just lived through 3,000 people dying. This is not a clinical exercise. Maybe for you guys it's a clinical exercise. Not for me. 3,000 people died, friends died. Now I'm going to sit back – and then everybody says, you idiots don't know how to connect the dots.
