While the liberal media previously scoffed at the necessity of the Department of Government Accountability (DOGE), suggesting that the federal government wasn’t losing a significant amount of money through fraud, CBS’s 60 Minutes did something astounding on Sunday night: admit the truth. Cecilia Vega actually spoke with a former official with the Government Accountability Office (GAO) who suspected the U.S. was approaching nearly $1 trillion in taxpayer money lost to fraud.
“It`s the most popular f-word in Washington: fraud,” Vega quipped at the top of the segment. After noting the weeding out fraud was part of the mandate for DOGE, she questioned: “Is DOGE looking in the right places?”
What she proceeded to roll out was an explainer on how the fraud being carried out against the American taxpayer was “complex, pervasive and being carried out by transnational criminal organizations often using stolen identities to target U.S. taxpayers -- costing the government hundreds of billions of dollars a year.” Prefaced with the tone that DOGE didn’t know what it was doing.
Linda Miller, a former official with GAO, commended Elon Musk and DOGE for “finally” acknowledging that fraud was a problem that’s not adequately being addressed, but argued that disagreeing with where the money was spent did not constitute “fraud” (Click “expand”):
MILLER: To be honest, Elon Musk coming out and saying, "There is a huge amount of fraud," I welcome that message completely because finally, someone is actually saying this.
VEGA (voiceover): No one knows the ins and outs of government fraud better than Linda Miller. She spent a decade at the Government Accountability Office, tracking how taxpayer money is spent and misspent, and even wrote the rulebook on preventing fraud in federal programs.
MILLER: Fraud is willful deception. It involves willful deception. And it has to be proven in a court of law.
VEGA: Is DOGE conflating fraud with wasteful spending?
MILLER: Yes, often. You may not agree with what USAID does. You may not want to be investing American dollars in, you know, foreign fertilizer, for example. You may think that`s the wrong thing to be spending money on, but that`s not fraud.
That argument aside, Miller disclose that she believed “the government is losing between $550 billion and about $750 billion a year. We`re coming up close to the $1 trillion amount -- is lost, every year, to fraud.”
Miller made the cast that the biggest source of the fraud were “nation-state actors” and “organized crime rings” that used stolen data to impersonate Americans and defraud the U.S. Vega actually noted that the fraud really took off during the pandemic, which Miller equated to U.S. governments (both federal and state) “[throwing] money in the air and just let people run around and grab it” (Click “expand”):
MILLER: Not at all, not by a long shot. What we`re really talking about is nation-state actors. We`re talking about organized crime rings. We`re talking about using vast amounts of stolen Americans` identities to monetize them for, you know, criminal activity.
VEGA (voiceover): The problem exploded during the pandemic -- when the government rushed trillions of dollars into the economy to help struggling Americans.
Applications for relief programs moved online, making it easier for people to access aid. But with few safeguards, scammers, hackers and organized crime rings also cashed in.
MILLER: Fraud prevention is simply not a priority for federal and state agencies.
VEGA (voiceover): In 2020, Miller was appointed to an independent watchdog committee that tracked how COVID relief money was spent.
MILLER: So we could tell, right away, it was like, "Oh, well, that`s all going to get stolen."
VEGA: You saw it coming?
MILLER: Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like they threw money in the air and just let people run around and grab it. The most egregious part is that a lot of the people who stole that money were foreign adversarial nation states.
VEGA: So who are they? Who are you talking about?
MILLER: We`re talking about China. We`re talking about Russia.
VEGA: Impersonating Americans, in a lot of cases?
MILLER: Yes. Right.
Sadly, the fraud schemes were sophisticated enough to follow the news of natural disasters in the U.S., buying the personal information of people in those areas, and filing for benefits in their names. Even using A.I. deepfakes to pretend to be the victims during video interviews.
“They used stolen, personally identifiable information and essentially created fraudulent unemployment claims, and then those proceeds were laundered through shell companies, and that money was sent back to these individuals in China,” explained Bryan Vorndran of the FBI’s Cyber Division.
Ignoring Republicans’ decades-long efforts to crackdown on the fraud, Vega asked Miller if she often felt like she was screaming into the wind, trying to get people to pay attention. Miller agreed with the notion and recounted interactions with the heads of government agencies who hated the term and wanted her to describe it a different way (Click “expand”):
VEGA: Do you ever feel like you`re sort of screaming until you`re blue in the face on this and no one is listening to you?
MILLER: Yes. Yes. I have worked with agencies, where when I sit down and talk to them, they say, "I`m going to stop you, right there, because you keep saying, `fraud.` And that`s -- that sounds so insidious. Is there another word we could use?" And I --
VEGA: Is there?
MILLER: Well, I say, "Well, what`s the word you`d prefer?" And they say, "Maybe, misappropriation."
VEGA: Does that make it better?
MILLER: Yeah. It sounds better. And, you know, and what I usually say is, "It is insidious."
“When I watch DOGE today, I do see some hints that they are addressing the right issues. But right now, I think the jury is still out on whether or not we`re going to get that kind of progress,” Miller added.
Miller wasn’t sure if DOGE was up to the task:
Because I really think fraud is not a political issue. This is mom and apple pie stuff. We all agree that bad actors should not be stealing American taxpayer dollars. But now, it`s become political. People like me, and people in the law enforcement community, we see the adversary, not as Republicans or Democrats, but as foreign adversarial nation-states and organized crime rings. And I believe that there`s opportunities for DOGE to save a lot of significant money, if they focus on the right things, if they focus on real fraud.
Of course, the narrative from 60 Minutes was, ‘yes, Trump and DOGE were right that there was fraud, but they still have to be wrong in some way.’
The transcript is below. Click "expand" to read:
CBS’s 60 Minutes
May 11, 2025
7:05:46 p.m. EasternCECILIA VEGA: It`s the most popular f-word in Washington: fraud.
And DOGE -- the Trump administration`s Department of Government Efficiency -- has been tearing through federal agencies on the hunt for it.
But is DOGE looking in the right places?
The fraud we`ll tell you about tonight is complex, pervasive and being carried out by transnational criminal organizations often using stolen identities to target U.S. taxpayers -- costing the government hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
(Begin VT)
LINDA MILLER: To be honest, Elon Musk coming out and saying, "There is a huge amount of fraud," I welcome that message completely because finally, someone is actually saying this.
VEGA (voiceover): No one knows the ins and outs of government fraud better than Linda Miller. She spent a decade at the Government Accountability Office, tracking how taxpayer money is spent and misspent, and even wrote the rulebook on preventing fraud in federal programs.
MILLER: Fraud is willful deception. It involves willful deception. And it has to be proven in a court of law.
VEGA: Is DOGE conflating fraud with wasteful spending?
MILLER: Yes, often. You may not agree with what USAID does. You may not want to be investing American dollars in, you know, foreign fertilizer, for example. You may think that`s the wrong thing to be spending money on, but that`s not fraud.
VEGA (voiceover): Last year, the Government Accountability Office released a report estimating the federal government loses as much as $521 billion a year to fraud. But Miller and other fraud experts believe the number is higher.
MILLER: I believe the government is losing between $550 billion and about $750 billion a year. We`re coming up close to the $1 trillion amount -- is lost, every year, to fraud.
VEGA: When most people think of government fraud, I imagine they`re thinking somebody is claiming disability benefits when they`re not actually eligible, somebody collecting food stamps when they`re not actually eligible. Are those the biggest offenders?
MILLER: Not at all, not by a long shot. What we`re really talking about is nation-state actors. We`re talking about organized crime rings. We`re talking about using vast amounts of stolen Americans` identities to monetize them for, you know, criminal activity.
VEGA (voiceover): The problem exploded during the pandemic -- when the government rushed trillions of dollars into the economy to help struggling Americans.
Applications for relief programs moved online, making it easier for people to access aid. But with few safeguards, scammers, hackers and organized crime rings also cashed in.
MILLER: Fraud prevention is simply not a priority for federal and state agencies.
VEGA (voiceover): In 2020, Miller was appointed to an independent watchdog committee that tracked how COVID relief money was spent.
MILLER: So we could tell, right away, it was like, "Oh, well, that`s all going to get stolen."
VEGA: You saw it coming?
MILLER: Oh, yeah. I mean, it was like they threw money in the air and just let people run around and grab it. The most egregious part is that a lot of the people who stole that money were foreign adversarial nation states.
VEGA: So who are they? Who are you talking about?
MILLER: We`re talking about China. We`re talking about Russia.
VEGA: Impersonating Americans, in a lot of cases?
MILLER: Yes. Right.
BRYAN VORNDRAN (FBI, Cyber Division): These are arguably digital gangs in the 21st century that are built off of having safe haven status, meaning their governments are not going to interrupt their activity, even if it`s illegal.
VEGA (voiceover): Bryan Vorndran is head of the FBI`s Cyber Division. He says these digital gangs are armed with a very important weapon.
VEGA: Is it true that the Social Security number of just about every single American is available for sale on the dark web?
VORNDRAN: That is a true statement. All of our personally identifiable information -- name, date of birth, former addresses, Social Security number -- is available on the dark net and can likely be purchased.
VEGA: That`s chilling.
VORNDRAN: Yeah. It`s very much a way of our lives, though, right now.
CECILIA VEGA: And purchased, I hear, for as little as two bucks apiece?
VORNDRAN: Yep. Very affordable.
VEGA (voiceover): Last year, the FBI unraveled one of the largest digital fraud cases in U.S. history, in which cyber criminals from around the world used stolen identities to pocket $6 billion in pandemic unemployment funds.
VORNDRAN: $6 billion is an enormous, enormous amount of money.
VEGA: Why is the government a target for this type of fraud?
VORNDRAN: Because of the massive amount of money that exists in the federal government and in the state government.
VEGA (voiceover): There is no official tally of how much COVID relief money was lost to fraud, but Miller estimates it`s more than a trillion dollars -- that`s 1 in 5 dollars -- making it the largest fraud loss in U.S. history.
MILLER: One of the things I found really disheartening is since then, I`ve talked to some folks who said, "Well, that was just the pandemic. We don`t have to worry about it anymore."
VEGA: Was it?
MILLER: No. I mean, it`s whack-a-mole. And they -- these guys are paying close attention. They`re seeing where better controls are being put in place. And then, they`re going to where the controls still haven`t been improved.
VEGA: What are the hot spots for fraud right now?
MILLER: Disaster funding is a really big issue. When a disaster happens in the country, the fraud actors see where it`s coming. They look at the zip codes. And they begin buying stolen identities --
VEGA: Wow.
MILLER: -- so that they can begin applying for disaster loans, disaster grants, on behalf of stolen identities.
(…)
7:12:57 p.m. Eastern
VEGA (voiceover): It`s not just one program. Where there`s money, there`s fraud -- in unemployment, food stamps, disability, tax refunds -- leaving Americans struggling to access what they`re owed.
All the while, criminals are one step ahead, using AI tools like deepfakes -- often of innocent people -- to cover their tracks.
WOMAN #1: Hi, can you confirm your name?
VEGA (voiceover): The man you see here is attempting to pass an identity check through the company ID.me to obtain a tax refund from the IRS. Or so it appears. Watch closely as he holds up a driver`s license: there`s a glitch, and you see a sliver of a different man`s face.
WOMAN #1: Unfortunately, I won`t be able to complete your verification.
VEGA (voiceover): You can hear someone speaking Mandarin in the background.
(MAN #1 speaking in foreign language)
VEGA (voiceover): In some cases, suspected criminals are on the payroll of foreign governments -- like China which employs a group the FBI calls APT 41. APT for Advanced Persistent Threat.
In 2021, APT 41 carried out a highly sophisticated and unusual hack of at least six state governments.
VEGA: What would they want, hacking into state government programs?
VORNDRAN: They just want to make money for themselves.
VEGA: Through the U.S. government?
VORNDRAN: Correct.
VEGA: Via American taxpayer dollars?
VORNDRAN: Correct. They used stolen, personally identifiable information and essentially created fraudulent unemployment claims, and then those proceeds were laundered through shell companies, and that money was sent back to these individuals in China.
VEGA: How much did they get?
VORNDRAN: Our best estimate is $60 million.
VEGA: $60 million? Over the course of how long?
VORNDRAN: Over the course of about two years.
VEGA: Wow. How much of that has been recovered?
VORNDRAN: Very little. Very little.
CECILIA VEGA: And I assume never will be?
BRYAN VORNDRAN: That`s -- that`s a likely outcome.
VEGA: And to be clear, this was money that was supposed to go to Americans in need --
VORNDRAN: Mm-hmm.
VEGA: -- in a crime being carried out that has been linked to the Chinese government?
VORNDRAN: Correct.
VEGA (voiceover): Multiple law enforcement and national security officials told us China is a top destination for stolen taxpayer dollars. But the schemes are so complex and difficult to investigate, the true losses are unknown.
VEGA: We`ve heard that attacks like this are continuing to this day. And it`s not just APT 41. There are hundreds of people involved. Do you believe that to be true?
VORNDRAN: I believe that there are sustained campaigns across this globe that are very well-resourced, with a goal of causing damage to the United States.
VEGA: Can you really catch a criminal in this arena that is operating in a place like China, Russia, North Korea, Eastern Europe?
VORNDRAN: We have plenty of examples, where we have caught people from some of the countries that you mentioned.
VEGA: I do think there`s a perception though that some of these criminals are untouchable. They`re impossible to get to.
VORNDRAN: Sure. I would agree with that.
VEGA: It also, respectfully, sounds like you`re outnumbered.
VORNDRAN: In the U.S. government, we`re all outnumbered.
VEGA: Do you ever feel like you`re sort of screaming until you`re blue in the face on this and no one is listening to you?
MILLER: Yes. Yes. I have worked with agencies, where when I sit down and talk to them, they say, "I`m going to stop you, right there, because you keep saying, `fraud.` And that`s -- that sounds so insidious. Is there another word we could use?" And I --
VEGA: Is there?
MILLER: Well, I say, "Well, what`s the word you`d prefer?" And they say, "Maybe, misappropriation."
VEGA: Does that make it better?
MILLER: Yeah. It sounds better. And, you know, and what I usually say is, "It is insidious."
TRUMP: It`s been brought to light that the fraud, not just waste and abuse, the fraud has been incredible.
VEGA (voiceover): DOGE claims it has saved taxpayers more than $160 billion so far, sometimes citing examples of cost cuts that are inaccurate and later walked back.
A White House spokesman told us DOGE has been working on improving data sharing between agencies and that departments are collaborating to identify fraud and prevent criminals from exploiting taxpayers, saying, quote, "fraudsters will be held accountable."
VEGA: Watching DOGE, are you optimistic that real fraud reform will actually come?
MILLER: I -- when I watch DOGE today, I do see some hints that they are addressing the right issues. But right now, I think the jury is still out on whether or not we`re going to get that kind of progress.
VEGA: Do you feel like you have to choose your words carefully, when you`re talking about DOGE and Elon Musk?
MILLER: Yeah.
VEGA: Why?
MILLER: Because I really think fraud is not a political issue. This is mom and apple pie stuff. We all agree that bad actors should not be stealing American taxpayer dollars. But now, it`s become political. People like me, and people in the law enforcement community, we see the adversary, not as Republicans or Democrats, but as foreign adversarial nation-states and organized crime rings.
And I believe that there`s opportunities for DOGE to save a lot of significant money, if they focus on the right things, if they focus on real fraud.
