The Friday primetime lineups of CNN and MSNBC did not handle the news that President Trump signed an executive order forbidding taxpayer money for PBS and NPR well, as they portrayed the news as an assault on everything from democracy, science, the military, farmers, and even the country itself.
On his CNN show, Anderson Cooper asked PBS documentarian Ken Burns, who will be out with a new documentary on the Revolution in November, “There's plenty of documentaries on Netflix, for instance. What's the value of public broadcasting?"
Burns tried to wax poetic but ultimately just ended up sounding like a crazy person, “Well, I think it's important that we do things together as a country. The enrichment that PBS has brought to my life, to our collective lives is just undisputable. I think PBS is part of the pursuit of happiness machine. They're part of what makes the country what it is. Like the National Parks. We called—we subtitled our series on the national parks, ‘America's best idea.’ This is the Declaration of Independence applied to broadcasting.”
As for that upcoming documentary, Burns continued, “The footage you're showing now on The American Revolution, we spent more than nine years working on it. By the time we broadcast, it will be one month short of ten years. You don't get that kind of space anywhere else, but public broadcasting. And it's just one of our crown jewels, like higher education that you mentioned at the beginning, like our national parks. This is who we are. It puts the us in the U.S.”
Cooper then turned to PBS CEO Paula Kerger, “What would a loss of federal funding mean for your organization and NPR, what would the impact of these cuts be for shows like Sesame Street or Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood?”
Predictably, Kerger freaked out. Speaking next to footage of Sesame Street, she warned:
We have 330 stations across the United States. Many of them are in very small communities. The whole idea when Lyndon Johnson signed the Public Broadcasting Act is he wanted to make sure that there would be public broadcasting in communities accessible to people, no matter what the size of those communities where, wherever you live, what your economic means, you should have access to really great content… For some of our stations, particularly in small communities…It is hard to imagine how those stations will exist without the support of the federal government.
The next hour on The Source, host Kaitlan Collins recalled to Bill Nye the Science Guy, “You, personally, must have interacted and encountered so many people over the years who have talked about how beneficial that was to them, or to their kids, or to their families.”
Nye tried to paint the move as harmful to missile defense, “everything happens for a reason, Kaitlan. And that reason, it's usually physics. So, if you want to have — if you want to have this advanced military capability, this, for example, this Golden Dome, you're going to need people in the pipeline to come be engineers, and physicists, scientists, to build these — this extraordinary system. And those people are going to get their love of science from public broadcasting.”
Later, during her show, Laura Coates welcomed Fred Rogers’s nephew, Daniel Crozier, and wondered, “Why is it so important to continue funding at PBS, obviously, the — the house of Mr. Rogers?”
Crozier made the false claim that, “Things of such value are — are presented by PBS that can't be at other networks because they aren't of commercial value. You know, it's a very special kind of thing, educational programming, the arts and history, all these things that PBS can offer that others can't.”
Fact-check: 31 years ago, while Burns was making baseball documentaries for PBS, the History Channel was making its own in-depth documentaries about the Revolution.
Over at MSNBC and Deadline: White House¸ former NPR host Michele Norris claimed Trump’s move was part of a strategy to make Americans dumber:
They don't understand that if you live in a place like Iowa or Nebraska and you spend your day behind a combine, or you listen to the radio while you're looking out at a cornfield, that oftentimes what they're listening to is an NPR station, because that's the place that will give them news about soybean futures. That's the place that will give them news about an invasive species that is affecting their crops. It's the place that will give them news about things that happened in the hills and the hollers and the mountains of America that, frankly, we don't cover in a place like MSNBC. And the Trump administration wants to control the narrative. The Trump administration wants to control the flow of information, and the Trump administration does not care that the public will be less educated and less informed.
A few hours later on All In, host Chris Hayes claimed to notice a pattern. After recalling previous Republican attacks on public broadcasting from everyone from Newt Gingrich to George W. Bush to Mitt Romney, he turned to Congressional Republicans, “Republican members of Congress who should want to protect their constitutional power of the purse, that's the biggest thing they have, have instead been so eager to let Donald Trump and Elon Musk slash and burn entire agencies and programs, because it saves them from having to do the unpopular stuff directly. No votes. Put another way, it protects them from their own voters. Put another way, it protects them from democracy.”
Hayes is not entirely wrong. Trump’s order will be challenged in the courts. Even if the order is upheld, a future Democratic president can simply reverse the move with their own executive order, so you can send a message to Congress on the need to codify the defunding of PBS and NPR by signing our petition at defundpbsnpr.org.
Here are transcripts for the May 2 shows:
CNN Anderson Cooper 360
5/2/2025
8:22 PM ET
ANDERSON COOPER: Ken, what do you say to people who don't believe taxpayer dollars should be spent to fund media or the arts at all? There's plenty of documentaries on Netflix, for instance. What's the value of public broadcasting?
KEN BURNS: Well, I think it's important that we do things together as a country. The enrichment that PBS has brought to my life, to our collective lives is just undisputable.
I think PBS is part of the pursuit of happiness machine. They're part of what makes the country what it is. Like the National Parks. We called — we subtitled our series on the national parks, “America's best idea.” This is the Declaration of Independence applied to broadcasting.
I couldn't have made, Anderson, any of the films I've made, nearly 40 films over the course of the last 45 years, any other place, but PBS. And it's not because I couldn't go raise the money to do it elsewhere. I could, with the kind of reputation that I've developed. It's just that they wouldn't give me the time to be able to explore these subjects.
The footage you're showing now on The American Revolution, we spent more than nine years working on it. By the time we broadcast, it will be one month short of ten years.
You don't get that kind of space anywhere else, but public broadcasting. And it's just one of our crown jewels, like higher education that you mentioned at the beginning, like our national parks. This is who we are. It puts the us in the U.S.
COOPER: Paula, help put this in perspective. What would a loss of federal funding mean for your organization and NPR, what would the impact of these cuts be for shows like Sesame Street or Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood?
PAULA KERGER: Well, it would impact the shows, but what it particularly will impact is many of our stations that serve this country. We have 330 stations across the United States. Many of them are in very small communities.
The whole idea when Lyndon Johnson signed the Public Broadcasting Act is he wanted to make sure that there would be public broadcasting in communities accessible to people, no matter what the size of those communities where, wherever you live, what your economic means, you should have access to really great content.
And so, for a number of our stations, Ken and I have crisscrossed the country often on behalf of PBS. We visit so many of our stations, and we see on the ground the great work we do. We talk to the people in the communities who benefit from those stations. Those stations will not stay on the air. We get about 15 percent of our funding from the public— government — from the public funding from the government. That's 15 percent, one five percent, that's an aggregate number.
For some of our stations, particularly in small communities. Ken and I have both been to Granite Falls, Minnesota. I think the federal appropriation for that station is closer to 40 percent. It is hard to imagine how those stations will exist without the support of the federal government.
***
CNN The Source with Kaitlan Collins
5/2/2025
9:39 PM ET
KAITLAN COLLINS: You, personally, must have interacted and encountered so many people over the years—
BILL NYE: Oh.
COLLINS: —who have talked about how beneficial that was to them, or to their kids, or to their families.
NYE: Well, it says, it's not millions or tens of millions. It's hundreds of millions of people watch the Science Guy show. Thank you all. Put my heart and soul into that thing.
And this is elementary science that is, for many people that I have spoken with, is sort of the main, the main science they got in middle and often high school. And so the reason we made that show, and the reason the show was made at that education level, is it was based on very, very compelling research, back in the 20th century, about what people needed to get this fundamental understanding of science.
And what — you know, everything happens for a reason, Kaitlan. And that reason, it's usually physics. So, if you want to have — if you want to have this advanced military capability, this, for example, this Golden Dome, you're going to need people in the pipeline to come be engineers, and physicists, scientists, to build these — this extraordinary system. And those people are going to get their love of science from public broadcasting. So this is—
COLLINS: Yeah.
NYE: —this is very well documented and so on. This is not in the national interest.
COLLINS: Well and just—
NYE: And it will be unpopular.
***
CNN Laura Coates Live
5/2/2025
11:43 PM ET
LAURA COATES: Joining me now is Mr. Rogers's nephew, Daniel Crozier. He's also a professor of music theory and composition at Rollins College. Daniel, so nice to see you. And you heard from your uncle just now, a very young uncle, making his case for PBS in that Senate hearing over 50 years ago. Do those words still resonate with you?
DANIEL CROZIER: Absolutely. He would say the same thing now as he said then. I'm absolutely sure of it if he were with us. I wish he were.
COATES: I think we all wish he were still here and imparting his wisdom to even this new generation as well. Why is it so important to continue funding at PBS, obviously, the — the house of Mr. Rogers?
CROZIER: Yes. He — well, his legacy is still alive and well at the Fred Rogers Company where they still produce Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood and a lot of other programs. But it's — you know, the — the same values that are enforced now. Things of such value are — are presented by PBS that can't be at other networks because they aren't of commercial value. You know, it's a very special kind of thing, educational programming, the arts and history, all these things that PBS can offer that others can't.
COATES: A really important distinction in the idea of how do you put a price tag or a value to be intangible and the invaluable that we see on programming that is found places like there.
***
MSNBC Deadline: White House
5/2/2025
4:49 PM ET
MICHELE NORRIS: One of the things, Nicolle, that I know from all the years that I worked at NPR is there's this misunderstanding about the NPR audience. I think the Trump administration would like to believe that most people who listen to NPR sip chardonnay and drive Volvos and, you know, are fairly progressive. They don't understand that if you live in a place like Iowa or Nebraska and you spend your day behind a combine, or you listen to the radio while you're looking out at a cornfield, that oftentimes what they're listening to is an NPR station, because that's the place that will give them news about soybean futures. That's the place that will give them news about an invasive species that is affecting their crops. It's the place that will give them news about things that happened in the hills and the hollers and the mountains of America that, frankly, we don't cover in a place like MSNBC. And the Trump administration wants to control the narrative. The Trump administration wants to control the flow of information, and the Trump administration does not care that the public will be less educated and less informed.
***
MSNBC All In With Chris Hayes
5/2/2025
8:06 PM ET
CHRIS HAYES: So you might be thinking, well, why doesn't Congress, which, remember, has Republican majorities in both houses, pass a bill to defund PBS? And here I'm pretty sure the answer is because they don't have the votes to do it. That is why Republicans have failed to defund PBS for half a century. It would be politically toxic to actually slash it legislatively.
In fact, Trump's proposed budget, which is out today, which Republicans are already balking at, does include the elimination of the funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, as so many Republican budgets have before it. And yet Trump turned around and signed this executive order last night anyway. And what does that say about the White House's confidence that it can pass the defunding through a Congress that it controls?
And here we come to what might be the central story so far of this administration. One way, it’s a problem Republicans have had for a long time. You might call it the Sesame Street problem. Okay. There are so many things Republicans want to destroy, defund, slash and cut in the government that they can't because those things are popular. That is the context for what we have seen in the first 100 days. It is the reason that, somewhat counterintuitively or paradoxically, Republican members of Congress who should want to protect their constitutional power of the purse, that's the biggest thing they have, have instead been so eager to let Donald Trump and Elon Musk slash and burn entire agencies and programs, because it saves them from having to do the unpopular stuff directly. No votes. Put another way, it protects them from their own voters. Put another way, it protects them from democracy.
