Correspondent Sarah McCammon joined her NPR colleague Michel Martin on Thursday’s Amanpour and Company on PBS to discuss her book, The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church because public broadcasting networks stick together. Naturally, Evangelicals’ relationship with Donald Trump and the “politicization of religion” was a big part of the conversation, but McCammon made it clear that her definition of politicization was that Christians do not bend their beliefs to appease the LGBTQ crowd.
McCammon, who also appeared on NewsHour back in March to promote the book, recalled that “we saw most people, frankly, as lost, as fallen. We believe that, you know, there are verses in the Bible about only, you know, a narrow path to heaven, and we really believed in that literally, and we believed that most people were not on that path, and it was our job to help them find it.”
That is standard Christian teaching, but McCammon tried to make it into something political, “And so, for me, you know, and I should say that Evangelicalism is a very big movement. A lot of different types of churches fall into that, and it's -- there's a spectrum of belief in practice, and so what I'm saying might not apply to everyone. But I think most of the Evangelical kids at my generation grew up with similar influences, a similar sort of concept of the world, similar views of human sexuality.”
With that as background, Martin later asked, “Fast forward, when did you see cracks in the dam? When did it start to break for you?”
McCammon cited her grandfather coming out as gay in the 80s after her grandmother died and the tension that created in her family, “you know, this was, again, a time when, you know, the moral majority was on the rise, the Christian right was rising. My parents were very influenced by people, by, you know, right-wing leaders like James Dobson and Gary Bauer and Ralph Reed and others, and, you know, people who were fighting against same-sex marriage and fighting against abortion rights.”
She added, “But I think over time, as I thought more about that and really just kind of felt a pull to have a relationship with my grandfather, and also through, you know, interactions with other kids here and there who were not evangelical Christians.”
Additionally, McCammon would remember feeling that Christian ideas of salvation—which is standard Christian doctrine, not right-wing politicization—are too rigid after she met and befriended an Iranian Muslim immigrant as a kid.
Towards the end, Martin asked her if so-called Exvangelicals could be a political force going forward. McCammon theorized they could be, but again, proved that many of the objections to Christianity have nothing to do with Trump and are not confined to problems with Evangelical Protestantism, “I think people who have left religion in part because of disaffection with some of the politicization of religion, both ex-evangelicals and some former Catholics, they form a pretty big group of people and there's a host of reasons why people leave.”
Christian teaching on sexuality has remained constant for centuries, but for McCammon not changing truth to appease young left-wing political sensibilities is actually politicizing the faith, “A lot of it -- some of it has to do with just simply not believing the things that their churches teach. But the polling I've seen from groups like the Public Religion Research Institute suggests that particularly the treatment of LGBTQ people by much of the Christian right is a major factor for particularly a lot of younger people disaffiliating from their churches.”
It would be one thing to discuss potential political excesses in the Evangelical Church, but to do that, PBS would need somebody who actually believes in Christian doctrine, not somebody who thinks doctrine itself is political.
Here is a transcript for the April 4 show:
PBS Amanpour and Company
4/4/2024
SARAH MCCAMMON: We saw most people, frankly, as lost, as fallen. We believe that, you know, there are verses in the Bible about only, you know, a narrow path to heaven, and we really believed in that literally, and we believed that most people were not on that path, and it was our job to help them find it.
And so, for me, you know, and I should say that Evangelicalism is a very big movement. A lot of different types of churches fall into that, and it's -- there's a spectrum of belief in practice, and so what I'm saying might not apply to everyone. But I think most of the Evangelical kids at my generation grew up with similar influences, a similar sort of concept of the world, similar views of human sexuality.
And, you know, we were taught that marriage is between a man and a woman, that the rise of gay rights was sort a sign of a falling away of the country from being a Christian nation. Certainly, abortion rights and the changing roles of women were part of that and that was something that many evangelicals in my community were actively fighting against and that message was very much tied up with the spiritual and religious message that I was hearing in church and in my Christian school, for example.
…
MICHEL MARTIN: So, fast forward, when did you see cracks in the dam? When did it start to break for you?
MCCAMMON: You know, people often ask me this, like, what was the moment? And there wasn't one moment and I think for many of the people there were many moments. There are many little things that just kind of felt like they didn't add up or moments of exposure to people who were different, who didn't quite fit the mold of what we were told the world should be like or was like.
And again, my grandfather was a really big part of that for me. I always struggled with the idea that there was something wrong with him, you know, both because he wasn't a Christian and also because, as I talk about in the book, he had come out -- after my grandmother passed away in the '80s, he'd come out as gay, late in life. And that was a source of a lot of conflict and tension in my family. You know, this was, again, a time when, you know, the moral majority was on the rise, the Christian right was rising. My parents were very influenced by people, by, you know, right-wing leaders like James Dobson and Gary Bauer and Ralph Reed and others, and, you know, people who were fighting against same-sex marriage and fighting against abortion rights.
And so, the idea that my own grandfather was living in this "lifestyle," I think was very difficult for my parents. It really clashed with their beliefs. And it meant that we were -- my siblings and I didn't spend a lot of time with him because he was seen as sort of a threatening figure. But I think over time, as I thought more about that and really just kind of felt a pull to have a relationship with my grandfather, and also through, you know, interactions with other kids here and there who were not evangelical Christians.
…
MCCAMMON: I think they could be. I think it's early to say, and I think people who have left religion in part because of disaffection with some of the politicization of religion, both ex-evangelicals and some former Catholics, they form a pretty big group of people and there's a host of reasons why people leave. A lot of it -- some of it has to do with just simply not believing the things that their churches teach. But the polling I've seen from groups like the Public Religion Research Institute suggests that particularly the treatment of LGBTQ people by much of the Christian right is a major factor for particularly a lot of younger people disaffiliating from their churches.
