On Friday's Amanpour & Co. on PBS and CNN International, host Christiane Amanpour was again trying to find a "silver lining" in the coronavirus pandemic as she spoke with primatologist Jane Goodall about her reaction to the crisis.
Goodall declared that "we brought this on ourselves" as she complained about deforestation and factory farms, and fretted that governments like the Trump administration have "swung to the right" and would ratchet up the burning of fossil fuels after the pandemic ends.
As Amanpour brought up the subject of covid-19, she posed:
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Tell me about how covid is going to, I don't know, is it going to work out -- could it have a silver lining in terms of how we figure out our place -- we humans in the natural world -- what we've done to potentially disrupt the natural world? Where do you think this could lead?
As she responded, Goodall did not just implicate the wet markets in China where the virus is believed to have jumped to humans, but she also made general complaints about the farming industry and the cutting down of trees:
JANE GOODALL: Well, the thing is, we brought this on ourselves. A pandemic like this has been predicted. We've had epidemics galore, and it's because we've disrespected the natural world and the animals who live there. And we cut down forests -- animals are pushed closer together ... This gives an opportunity for the viruses and bacteria to spill over from the animal host to human. And then, in addition to that, we kill them, we eat them, we traffic them. We sell them in wildlife meat markets across Asia...
A bit later, she added:
GOODALL: And we should remember it's not only the cruelty to the animals that are sold in tiny cages, often killed on the spot... but then we've got our factory farms, that we're breeding billions of animals in terrible, horrible crowded, unsanitary conditions. And epidemics have started from factory farms as well as from these wildlife markets. So we have brought this on ourselves, and people have known about it and been telling us about it, but we prefer to go on with business as usual to make money and attain power in the short term and not worry about future generations or the health of the planet.
Amanpour followed up by asking her guest if she believed the cleaner air could last after the pandemic ends, leading Goodall to fret that President Donald Trump and other governments that have "swung to the right" would continue allowing fossil fuels to be burned. Goodall began her response:
JANE GOODALL: Well, I think it depends on the different countries. I mean, I know that China is already getting back to business as usual and has opened up a couple of coal-fired power plants. I think that President Bush will do exactly the same.
After Amanpour corrected her that she meant to say "President Trump," Goodall continued:
GOODALL: But there are millions of people, I think, from the big cities who've never breathed clean air before or looked up and seen the stars shining in the night sky, and they won't want to go back to the old polluted days, the old pollution that's killing so many people every year. And so at the moment although I think there are too many world leaders who have swung to the right, who want to get back to business as usual, but I'm hoping there's a ground swell of people that will grow because we now know what the world could be like...
Bellow is a transcript of the relevant portion of the Friday, May 8, Amanpour & Co. on PBS and CNN International. Click "expand" to read more.
Amanpour & Co.
5/8/2020
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Tell me about how covid is going to, I don't know, is it going to work out -- could it have a silver lining in terms of how we figure out our place -- we humans in the natural world -- what we've done to potentially disrupt the natural world? Where do you think this could lead?
JANE GOODALL: Well, the thing is, we brought this on ourselves. A pandemic like this has been predicted. We've had epidemics galore, and it's because we've disrespected the natural world and the animals who live there. And we cut down forests -- animals are pushed closer together ... This gives an opportunity for the viruses and bacteria to spill over form the animal host to human. And then, in addition to that, we kill them, we eat them, we traffic them. We sell them in wildlife meat markets across Asia -- which, by the way, wet markets don't sell live animals at all. They're more like farmers markets.
These wildlife meat markets across Asia and the Bush markets in Africa create ideal environments for these viruses and bacteria to hop over, to cross the species barrier and bind with whatever they bind with in a human to create a new disease like covid-19.
And we should remember it's not only the cruelty to the animals that are sold in tiny cages, often killed on the spot... but then we've got our factory farms, that we're breeding billions of animals in terrible, horrible crowded, unsanitary conditions. And epidemics have started from factory farms as well as from these wildlife markets. So we have brought this on ourselves, and people have known about it and been telling us about it, but we prefer to go on with business as usual to make money and attain power in the short term and not worry about future generations or the health of the planet.
AMANPOUR: And you've seen, Jane, how the skies are clearer, the air is clearer because we've had two months plus now of much less air traffic, much less traffic on the roads. Do you think this is a moment that could last or do you have a little bit of cynicism about that?
JANE GOODALL: Well, I think it depends on the different countries. I mean, I know that China is already getting back to business as usual and has opened up a couple of coal-fired power plants. I think that President Bush will do exactly the same. And I think in some --
AMANPOUR: President Trump.
GOODALL: President Trump -- what did I say? President Trump.
AMANPOUR: No, that's okay, don't worry.
GOODALL: I think I said President Trump. Anyway, I meant to.
AMANPOUR: Yes, yes, yes.
GOODALL: But there are millions of people, I think, from the big cities who've never breathed clean air before or looked up and seen the stars shining in the night sky, and they won't want to go back to the old polluted days, the old pollution that's killing so many people every year. And so at the moment although I think there are too many world leaders who have swung to the right, who want to get back to business as usual, but I'm hoping there's a ground swell of people that will grow because we now know what the world could be like...
