During an interview with Today show co-host Savannah Guthrie aired Friday morning, liberal talk show host Ellen DeGeneres reacted to allegations against Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh by blasting the judge for being able to “get away with” being “angry” during the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing in which Democrats were smearing him as a rapist.
After DeGeneres shared her personal experience of sexual abuse as a teenager, Guthrie referred to the Kavanaugh controversy and wondered: “Do you think that this will add up to something meaningful?” DeGeneres condemned Kavanaugh for defending himself against heinous sexual assault allegations:
I hope so. I mean, really, you just imagine if Dr. Ford would have been that angry on the stand and would have talked back to somebody questioning her. Women aren’t supposed to do that, but he can get away with it because he was angry. She was angry, too. But she controlled herself and was hurt. And – but she’s not allowed to do that because we’re not allowed to do that.
Guthrie followed up: “Are you hopeful, in this moment?” DeGeneres replied by slamming President Trump for pointing out flaws in Christine Blasey Ford’s testimony: “I’m hopeful, but then I see things that just continue to happen. You know, I see Trump and he’s, you know, now mocking Dr. Ford.” She added:
I don’t like to talk about him and I – this is not political, it really isn’t. It’s got nothing to do with being Republican or Democrat or anything, it’s just about respect and someone who is the leader of our country who is mocking someone who was abused. You don’t do that. You don’t mock somebody. I’m angry, I’m sorry.
Guthrie reassured her: “Having a show where you do something good and make people smile is not a small contribution right now.”
DeGeneres often claims she is “not political,” but has a lengthy track record of using her daytime talk show to promote her liberal activism.
Following the taped interview, Guthrie’s fellow co-host Craig Melvin chimed in: “My goodness, that was a – I’ve never seen Ellen that way.” Guthrie claimed: “It was very unexpected. I mean, Ellen is – I said she’s a little shy, but she’s reserved and she doesn’t speak out all the time....but she clearly had something to say.”
After showing the DeGeneres interview, the hosts turned to New York Times reporter Megan Twohey, marking the one-year anniversary of her story exposing the Harvey Weinstein sexual assault scandal that sparked the #MeToo movement. Guthrie asked: “Could you have even fathomed what that story would have wrought in our culture?” Twohey responded by touting the uncorroborated accusations against Kavanaugh as the latest chapter in the movement:
Oh, absolutely not. It’s remarkable. I mean, just look at the headlines today. From Kavanaugh, to the soccer player who’s been accused of rape, to Ellen being just the latest person – high-profile person to share her personal experience with sexual abuse. I mean, it – this is an issue that’s not going away and we just are going to continue to be forced to face it every day I think.
Hoda Kotb followed up: “What do you think it was about Dr. Ford’s testimony that moved so many people? Connie Chung came out, Terri Hatcher, Ellen, Busy Philipps, you’re seeing all these people. What do you think it was that made women say, ‘Okay, I have the courage now’?” Twohey fawned over Ford:
Yeah, I think that what was clear from her testimony last Friday was that she – excuse me, last Thursday – was that she was – she really did not appear to be there with a political agenda. She has never once said, “I’m here to affect the outcome of the vote on this individual, I’m just here to share my individual story and I want to be heard.”
She was guileless. I mean, she just was – you could tell from start to finish that she was earnest in her account of what had happened to her and the affects that it had, had on her. I mean, I think that nobody can forget her talking about the – how upsetting it was for her to be in this – what she says was this terrible attempted attack and the laughter of the two that, you know, who she says had attacked her.
And so, I think that, that really resonated with a lot of people. And to see the way that she has been treated since then, I think, has clearly inspired, from Connie Chung to Ellen, a lot more women to come out and say, “We’re going to share our stories, too. We need to be heard.”
In recent weeks, the Today show has highlighted prominent women like Chung and Top Chef host Padma Lakshmi sharing their experiences with sexual assault to convict Kavanaugh. On Thursday, Chung, a veteran journalist, wrote an op/ed for The Washington Post in which she argued that Ford’s significant gaps in memory were “insignificant.” One week earlier, Lakshmi wrote a similar editorial in which she argued that Kavanaugh should “pay a price” based on the unsubstantiated accusations against him. The morning show eagerly promoted both articles.
On Thursday, NBC anchor Megyn Kelly offered an impassioned warning against automatically presuming anyone accused of sexual assault to be guilty without evidence:
I’ve said this from the beginning, “believe women” may sound like a nice slogan, but it is utterly inconsistent with the fundamental principles of our justice system. Utterly inconsistent. Women are entitled to an open mind and a fair hearing, not to a presumption that their accusations are true. Men get due process as well....And I reject the attempt to shame anyone as sexist or misogynistic if they choose instead to use their common sense and make up their own minds based on the facts, based on the evidence.
Here are excerpts of Guthrie’s exchange with DeGeneres aired on the October 5 Today show:
7:36 AM ET
(...)
ELLEN DEGENERES: You know, right now my platform is this show and I hope that it’s an escape for people from what’s going on in the world.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: But sometimes, the heart-wrenching issues of the day come to her doorstep, like this week, with actress Busy Philipps.
BUSY PHILIPPS: Last week, with the Kavanaugh hearings, I saw Dr. Ford take the stand and, you know, I write about my own experience being raped at age 14.
DEGENERES: I was 15 and I had something happen to me.
GUTHRIE: You have talked about you own experience with abuse. And I just wondered how you feel this moment is impacting our country and you personally.
DEGENERES: Well, as a victim of sexual abuse, I am furious at people who don’t believe it.
(...)
7:37 AM ET
DEGENERES: I think anybody who’s gone through it, right now, is watching this so angry because, you know, how dare you not believe us.
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: And so many women are now looking at their pasts and realizing, “You know, that wasn’t okay.”
DEGENERES: Yeah.
GUTHRIE: Do you think that this will add up to something meaningful?
ELLEN DEGENERES: I hope so. I mean, really, you just imagine if Dr. Ford would have been that angry on the stand and would have talked back to somebody questioning her. Women aren’t supposed to do that, but he can get away with it because he was angry. She was angry, too. But she controlled herself and was hurt. And – but she’s not allowed to do that because we’re not allowed to do that.
GUTHRIE: Are you hopeful, in this moment?
DEGENERES: I’m hopeful, but then I see things that just continue to happen. You know, I see Trump and he’s, you know, now mocking Dr. Ford.
DONALD TRUMP: Where is the place? “I don’t remember.” How many years ago was it? “I don’t know.”
DEGENERES: I don’t like to talk about him and I – this is not political, it really isn’t. It’s got nothing to do with being Republican or Democrat or anything, it’s just about respect and someone who is the leader of our country who is mocking someone who was abused. You don’t do that. You don’t mock somebody. I’m angry, I’m sorry. [Applause]
GUTHRIE: Having a show where you do something good and make people smile is not a small contribution right now.
DEGENERES: Thanks. I hope – [Applause] Thank you. If anything, before I stop doing this show someday, I hope that I’m empowering women. We just have to not be quiet anymore.
CRAIG MELVIN: My goodness, that was a – I’ve never seen Ellen that way.
GUTHRIE: It was very unexpected. I mean, Ellen is – I said she’s a little shy, but she’s reserved and she doesn’t speak out all the time. And you know, I almost didn’t even ask the question, but she clearly had something to say. And right after that interview, which of you could see we did it on her set, and then I walked off the stage and she appeared before her audience and she was in tears. And she said, “I’m sorry. I’m sorry to get emotional. But I felt I had to say something.” And so, you know, she did. She used her voice, which is what a lot of women are doing.
Here is a full transcript of the segment with Megan Twohey:
7:40 AM ET
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: We want to bring in NBC News Contributor Megan Twohey, who, along with her reporting partner Jodi Kantor, broke the Harvey Weinstein story in The New York Times. That story hit the press one year ago today. Their work led to a Pulitzer Prize. Meghan, good morning.
HODA KOTB: Hi, Megan.
GUTHRIE: What a difference a year has made, the cliche is true. Could you have even fathomed what that story would have wrought in our culture?
MEGAN TWOHEY: Oh, absolutely not. It’s remarkable. I mean, just look at the headlines today. From Kavanaugh, to the soccer player who’s been accused of rape, to Ellen being just the latest person – high-profile person to share her personal experience with sexual abuse. I mean, it – this is an issue that’s not going away and we just are going to continue to be forced to face it every day I think.
KOTB: What do you think it was about Dr. Ford’s testimony that moved so many people? Connie Chung came out, Terri Hatcher, Ellen, Busy Philipps, you’re seeing all these people. What do you think it was that made women say, “Okay, I have the courage now”?
TWOHEY: Yeah, I think that what was clear from her testimony last Friday was that she – excuse me, last Thursday – was that she was – she really did not appear to be there with a political agenda. She has never once said, “I’m here to affect the outcome of the vote on this individual, I’m just here to share my individual story and I want to be heard.”
She was guileless. I mean, she just was – you could tell from start to finish that she was earnest in her account of what had happened to her and the affects that it had, had on her. I mean, I think that nobody can forget her talking about the – how upsetting it was for her to be in this – what she says was this terrible attempted attack and the laughter of the two that, you know, who she says had attacked her.
And so, I think that, that really resonated with a lot of people. And to see the way that she has been treated since then, I think, has clearly inspired, from Connie Chung to Ellen, a lot more women to come out and say, “We’re going to share our stories, too. We need to be heard.”
CRAIG MELVIN: Megan, this has not been a movement or moment without controversy. Just this week, the President, down in West Virginia, said this is a scary time for men in America as well. How real is the possibility that we are starting to see some blowback to the #MeToo movement and it might manifest itself in the next few weeks during the midterms?
TWOHEY: Right, well I would start by saying I think that when our – you know, when we first published on our Weinstein story a year ago, we really could not have imagined everything that has played out since then. I mean, anybody who thought that this issue or that the movement that our reporting helped spark was gonna go away was wrong.
I mean, publicly you’ve seen so many women, and some men too, come forward with their stories of sexual harassment and abuse and rape. There have been powerful figures ousted from a variety of industries. Privately, I think in homes across the country, in office cafeterias, at the bar over drinks, people have been having personal reckonings over this.
And I think that the Kavanaugh nomination has now been just the latest example of how we cannot escape this, this is not going away.
Is it going to become more controversial? Is there going to be backlash? Is there – I mean, I think it’s going to be interesting. Any time these issues come up in a political realm, it’s that much more controversial. These allegations get fed into the politically polarized – sort of, you know, where we are today. And each side wants to use them for their own purpose.
But I think – so I think moving forward it’s gonna, especially taking this turn through the Kavanaugh nomination, I think it’s clear that there are a lot of women, from survivors to just other people who are very sympathetic to this cause, who feel very riled up no matter what happens with this vote. And I think that there are also clearly some men, and now sort of a broader Republican base, that are gonna rally around this.
KOTB: Alright, Megan, thank you so much.
MELVIN: Great work.
GUTHRIE: We’ll have a story to continue to cover, that is for sure. Megan, thank you.
