On Thursday's New Day, CNN personalities Chris Cuomo and Angela Rye demonstrated that there's just no convincing liberals that giving men a right to demand entry into women's restrooms, changing rooms or shower rooms is a bad idea, even if you cite examples of sexual predators taking advantage of liberal access policies to victimize women and girls.
During a debate over efforts by the Texas legislature to require people to use public restrooms in schools and public buildings that correspond to their birth gender, both host Cuomo and CNN commentator Rye dismissed conservative CNN commentator Ben Ferguson specifying four examples of men filming women and girls in department stores, with Rye even chuckling about the four examples supposedly being an insignificant number.
Shortly before 8:00 a.m. ET, after Ferguson recalled that most parents in Texas support the proposal and are willing to defy businesses that have threatened to leave the state because parents view it as a "safety" issue, Cuomo challenged him:
Do you really think it's about a safety issue, Ben? I mean, the numbers -- the numbers just aren't really there, but you also don't really need the numbers. You could try to do something like this on the basis of a morality play or a tolerance play, and then you'd get into different types of jurisprudence. But where are the numbers that show this is a security issue?
Referring back to the examples of men being arrested at three Target stores and one Ross store, Ferguson reiterated: "Well, I gave you four examples that were just highlights of where this has been an issue."
Rye could be seen laughing, and Cuomo was unconvinced as he responded: "Right, but none of them were bathrooms in schools. None of them were locker rooms in schools. Those numbers don't exist."
Although there have been a substantial number of documented examples of such predatory behavior in different parts of the country -- including in primary schools and universities -- Cuomo seemed to take the position that there would be no case against barring liberal bathroom policies in Texas schools until someone finds an example of boys engaging in such behavior in Texas schools:
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BEN FERGUSON: Because you haven't had this very long in most of the municipalities-
CHRIS CUOMO: Then how do you know it's going to happen? If you want to proscribe the behavior because of the risk, but you haven't seen any evidence of the risk, how do you make that case?
A bit later, Cuomo argued that it was an issue of "tolerance" instead of safety: "It's not a safety issue for the parents. It's their idea of what they want their kid around. It's about their tolerance level, not their safety."
He then referred back to the issue of 12-year-old girls having to be in a bathroom or changing room with a grown man as he again mocked conservatives for being concerned about such a situation:
FERGUSON: When you have a young child that is in a room with someone of the opposite sex and they are changing or showering, that is-
CUOMO: With a young person of the opposite sex. You guys like to say that it's grown men who are going to be with 12-year-old girls. That's what you like to say, Ben, but that's not the case.
Cuomo recently claimed on Twitter that a 12-year-old girl would be opposed to using a bathroom with a grown man because her parents taught her to be intolerant.
A bit later, when Rye got her next turn to speak, she compared barring transgenders from the bathroom of their choice to barring blacks from water fountains used by whites:
So a 17-year-old boy who identifies as a female is not a safety risk, and what this demonstrates -- and what Ben just has -- is that there is a lack of tolerance. There is a lot of bigotry surrounding this issue. There's an internet meme going around that says it's not about bathrooms just like it was never about water fountains.
She added:
And so we have to acknowledge it is a moral issue, it is a tolerance issue, and the fact is, morals are not on their side. This is inhumane to do this to people who don't identify in the way that these parents who don't have any documented evidence of any type of safety issue pushing this off on these kids. It's just unreasonable.
Below is a transcript of relevant portions of the Thursday, March 9, New Day on CNN:
7:53 a.m. ET
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We've seen in the state where there have been a lot of people that have abused the transgender bathroom rule or changing room in the state. Specifically, there's been four different men that have been arrested going into different Target stories and filming some young girls, others women, who were busted. All of them had the same alibi: "I identify as a woman today." So that sparked a lot of this. You also had a young girl who filmed in a Ross department store over Christmas just right around the corner from where I live. Again, the man said to the manager when he was busted: "I identify as a woman today."(...)
FERGUSON: And the majority of parents here have said they're fine with losing this money because they're not going to dictate what is safe and what they want for their children at the hands of business executives.
CHRIS CUOMO: Do you really think it's about a safety issue, Ben? I mean, the numbers -- the numbers just aren't really there, but you also don't really need the numbers. You could try to do something like this on the basis of a morality play or a tolerance play, and then you'd get into different types of jurisprudence. But where are the numbers that show this is a security issue?
FERGUSON: Well, I gave you four examples (Angela Rye laughs) that were just highlights of where this has been an issue.
CUOMO: Right, but none of them were bathrooms in schools. None of them were locker rooms in schools. Those numbers don't exist.
FERGUSON: Because you haven't had this very long in most of the municipalities-
CUOMO: Then how do you know it's going to happen? If you want to proscribe the behavior because of the risk, but you haven't seen any evidence of the risk, how do you make that case?
FERGUSON: Again, that is not accurate, and I'll give you a perfect example. You just dealt with the issue with a student in Texas who was using the locker room of another gender, and it brought up massive issues with parents who said, "I do not want my daughter in a locker room with someone that is a boy, or a girl that's in a locker room vice versa switching it over."
CUOMO: That's not a safety issue.
FERGUSON: It is a safety issue for those parents, and you should respect that.
CUOMO; No, it's not. It's not a safety issue for the parents. It's their idea of what they want their kid around. It's about their tolerance level, not their safety.
FERGUSON: No, no, no.
CUOMO: Yes.
FERGUSON: When you have a young child that is in a room with someone of the opposite sex and they are changing or showering, that is-
CUOMO: With a young person of the opposite sex. You guys like to say that it's grown men who are going to be with 12-year-old girls. That's what you like to say, Ben, but that's not the case.
FERGUSON: Chris, Chris, I understand you disagree with me. but you actually need to be tolerant and listen to the other side of this. And the tolerance of this is this. If you're a 17-year-old male, and you say that you're a girl, and you go into the girls' locker room, that is a safety issue.
CUOMO: No, it's not.
FERGUSON: And the majority of people in Texas agree with me on that one. It is a safety issue, and it's not just a moral issue. It also is a safety issue.
CUOMO: Okay, so that's the argument. How is it a safety-
FERGUSON: You wouldn't want your daughter or your son being someone switched in that way on that issue. Let me say one other thing, though. You just brought up the numbers. You said this isn't a big issue because there's not a lot of cases here. Why not use the same logic on the basic issue of there are so few cases here that you're talking about that would even be influence with a certain number of people that can't use the locker room that they want to use even though they're not that sex? Why should society change completely for so few numbers, to use your same logic that it's a small issue?
CUOMO: And that is a fundamental question -- that's a fundamental question that has triggered Equal Protection arguments throughout our nation's history, and it will do it once again. But hold on a second. Respond to Ben's point here, and then I want to get a quick take on a different issue. But his take is the parents don't want it, they think having a 17-year-old boy with a 17-year-old girl in a locker room is a safety risk. Is that what it's about?
ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So a 17-year-old boy who identifies as a female is not a safety risk, and what this demonstrates -- and what Ben just has -- is that there is a lack of tolerance. There is a lot of bigotry surrounding this issue. There's an internet meme going around that says it's not about bathrooms just like it was never about water fountains.
And so we have to acknowledge it is a moral issue, it is a tolerance issue, and the fact is, morals are not on their side. This is inhumane to do this to people who don't identify in the way that these parents who don't have any documented evidence of any type of safety issue pushing this off on these kids. It's just unreasonable.
CUOMO: They don't have to like it, but that doesn't make it okay to proscribe it.
