On Monday's New Day, CNN's Alisyn Camerota badgered Senator Rand Paul over President Obama's call for Congress to ban terror suspects from buying firearms: "That's one that seems as though it should be easy to fix. Why not close the loophole that allows suspects on the FBI's no-fly list to buy guns?" When Senator Paul cited how Ted Kennedy was on the no-fly list, Camerota shot back, "Look, I mean, I hear you, but fix the watch list. That's an issue of fixing the watch list...not to, somehow, let terrorists get their hands on guns." [video below]
The anchor first played a clip from the President's Sunday address from the Oval Office where he made the gun control proposal before asking her "loophole" question. The Kentucky politician replied by underlining that "nobody wants somebody who's a terrorist to have a gun — myself included — but there has to be a process." Camerota followed up with her "fix the watch list" line. Senator Paul responded by analogizing the First Amendment's protection of freedom of the press to the Second Amendment's protection of the right to keep and bear arms:
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: ...I don't think we should take away your First Amendment right to have freedom to express yourself in the media without some kind of due process. I'd be very worried about saying, we're going to have a watch list of journalists who we think are inappropriate on TV, and we'll take away their First Amendment rights. What you really need is a constitutional process. I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of terrorists, but you can't just have a list.
The guest continued by criticizing the President for focusing on the wrong issue: "The President mistakes the real problem here. The real problem is about who we're letting into the country. I mean, we have to have a pause on immigration from the Middle East until we can get a handle on, are we admitting people who want to attack and kill us?"
The CNN journalist played up that "this is a case where this gunman was born in America." The GOP presidential contender pointed out that "his wife came here recently, and there's many arguing that she was the one that radicalized things. But even the President, last night, in his speech — if you look at his speech, admitted that there wasn't enough scrutiny on her." He then repeated his call for a "moratorium on new immigration from the Middle East, because I think that is a great danger to us."
Camerota ran to the administration's defense over Senator Paul's immigration plan:
ALISYN CAMEROTA: Well, when you say a moratorium on immigration from the Middle East, you mean where — the whole Middle East, not allow anyone in? Because I mean — in other words, it sounds like what you're saying is that you don't trust our Department of Homeland Security and other officials to actually do a proper vetting process.
The Kentucky Republican simply replied, "Right," and highlighted a Republican proposal for "a hundred percent entry and exit, so we know a hundred percent of the time who comes and when they leave."
Near the end of the interview, the anchor noted that one of Senator Paul's competitors, Chris Christie, criticized President Obama and Congress for limiting the NSA's surveillance powers. She asked, "Senator, why not use every tool at our disposal — is his point?" The guest replied by launching a blunt counter-attack: "You know, there will always be authoritarians like Christie, who want you to give up your liberty for a false sense of security."
Back in October 2015, Camerota lobbied another Republican presidential candidate on the gun control issue. The CNN anchor pointed out Hillary Clinton's "tighten the gun show Internet sales loophole" idea to former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, and asked, "Isn't that one a no-brainer?"
The full transcript of Alisyn Camerota's interview Senator Rand Paul from the December 7, 2015 edition of CNN's New Day:
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Congress should take right away. To begin with, Congress should act to make sure no one on a no-fly list is able to buy a gun. What could possibly be the argument for allowing a terror suspect to buy a semi-automatic weapon? This is a matter of national security.
ALISYN CAMEROTA: That was President Obama calling on Congress to take action to keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, and reiterating his strategy to fight ISIS.
Let's bring in Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky. He is running for president. He joins us now. Senator, thanks so much for being here. Let's talk—
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good morning—
[CNN Graphic: "Obama: Gun Control 'Is A Matter Of National Security'; Obama Vows To 'Overcome' Evolving Terror Threat"]
CAMEROTA: Great to see you. Let's talk about everything the President talked about last night, but let's just start there. Let's start there because that's one that seems as though it should be easy to fix. Why not close the loophole that allows suspects on the FBI's no-fly list to buy guns?
PAUL: You know, I think there probably is a way to do it. But I would put the analogy this way, though. If we were to get rid of the freedom of the press, would you want to do it because you're on a watch list, or would you want to do it because there had been a form of due process or a trial that says, you no longer get your First Amendment privileges? It's the same with the Second Amendment.
If we're going to take away Second Amendment privileges, nobody wants somebody who's a terrorist to have a gun — myself included — but there has to be a process. And one of the reasons has to be a process is — you know, Ted Kennedy was on the watch list; so was Cat Stevens. It was a mistake, but would you want to take away their constitutional rights over a mistake? So, it's a pretty serious thing to take constitutional rights. There needs to be a process, not after the fact, but before the fact. We had a Republican alternative that was similar, but had more due process. And I think there is a middle ground if the other side wants to work with us on this.
[CNN Graphic: "Sen. Paul 'Nobody Wants... A Terrorist To have A Gun'"]
CAMEROTA: Look, I mean, I hear you, but fix the watch list. That's an issue of fixing the watch list, so as not to have Ted Kennedy on it — not to, somehow, let terrorists get their hands on guns—
PAUL: Well, it's both. Well, it's both. It's both. I mean, I don't think we should take away your First Amendment right to have freedom to express yourself in the media without some kind of due process. I'd be very worried about saying, we're going to have a watch list of journalists who we think are inappropriate on TV, and we'll take away their First Amendment rights. What you really need is a constitutional process. I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of terrorists, but you can't just have a list.
I'll give you an example. In the fight against terrorism, we set up these centers called fusion centers, and some of the people they put on the list to watch were people who were from the Constitution Party; people who were pro-life; people who were supporters of my dad. So, I think you have to be real careful about saying, oh, it's just a list. We'll gather up everybody on the list. There has to be due process and constitutional rights.
But I think also the President mistakes the real problem here. The real problem is about who we're letting into the country. I mean, we have to have a pause on immigration from the Middle East until we can get a handle on, are we admitting people who want to attack and kill us?
CAMEROTA: But of course, this is a case where this gunman was born in America. He was American—
PAUL: Well, his — his wife came here recently, and there's many arguing that she was the one that radicalized things. But even the President, last night, in his speech — if you look at his speech, admitted that there wasn't enough scrutiny on her. And I think if you look at — we have 150,000 students here from the Middle East. Do we know where they all are? Do we know that they're in school? Do we know that they haven't overstayed their visas?
So, I think we have to — to really look hard at what we're doing now before we make the haystack bigger; before we admit millions of new people into this country. I think we have to push pause, and have a moratorium on new immigration from the Middle East, because I think that is a great danger to us. And making this about gun control, I think, mistakes the real danger, and that is people coming here to attack us.
[CNN Graphic: "Sen. Paul: Need A 'Pause On Immigration From Middle East'"]
CAMEROTA: Well, when you say a moratorium on immigration from the Middle East, you mean where — the whole Middle East, not allow anyone in? Because I mean — in other words, it sounds like what you're saying is that you don't trust our Department of Homeland Security and other officials to actually do a proper vetting process.
[CNN Graphic: "Paul: 'Moratorium On Immigration From Middle East'"]
PAUL: Right. What we do is — in our bill, we have a couple of different items, and once these are achieved, we would try to get back to some sort of normalcy. But we would have a hundred percent entry and exit, so we know a hundred percent of the time who comes and when they leave. So we have 11 million people here illegally, and 40 percent of them are said to have overstayed their visas. If we can't get a grip on who's overstaying their visas and who's not obeying our visa system, that is a real danger to us.
It's also a danger from the visa waiver countries — the President mentioned this, also. But what I'm saying is, anybody coming from Germany, France, England — they need to come through global entry. That's like, our frequent flyer program, but you do a background check. Once you have the background check, people would come in very easily and very quickly, but known travelers would. If you're an unknown traveler, I think it should take awhile. That's how we're going to defend our country. And this is going to be going on for a long time; so we're going to have this debate for a long time. But in order to defend our country, we have to defend our border.
CAMEROTA: The theory — one of the theories, as you say, is that he was radicalized by his wife. Another theory is that he was self-radicalized by online readings and communications, and that can happen. What's the answer?
PAUL: I think no easy answer, unless you're like some of the authoritarians who want to ban reading. So, I don't know that there is an easy answer there. But the one thing we can control is immigration; and the other thing that we can do is, I think, we can decide whether or not we're wanting to go back to another war in the Middle East. And I don't think American sons and daughters need to go back into the Middle East. I'm for letting the boots on the ground be Arab boots on the ground.
CAMEROTA: One of your fellow Republicans running for president, Governor Chris Christie, has said that now is no time to curtail the NSA surveillance program. Let me play for you what he said.
CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (from CBS's "Face The Nation"): It was so wrong for Congress and the President to pull back on our surveillance capability with the NSA; so wrong to demoralize our intelligence community through the report they issued at the end of this — this last year. You know, the fact is that we need to strengthen our intelligence; strengthen our law enforcement community; and — and just — you know, work as hard as we can to try to intercept this.
[CNN Graphic: "Sen. Paul: Boots On The Ground Should Be From Arab Nations"]
CAMEROTA: Senator, why not use every tool at our disposal — is his point?
PAUL: You know, there will always be authoritarians like Christie, who want you to give up your liberty for a false sense of security. But the facts of the matter are this: the court — the court just below the Supreme Court has ruled this program to be illegal; two bipartisan commissions have said we haven't stopped any terrorist attacks from it; and there's a real fundamental question that is a constitutional question: can you allow the indiscriminate collection of everyone's data — everyone's private information — without a warrant? The Fourth Amendment says that you have to individualize it — put a name on the warrant, have suspicion, and talk to a judge. But when you want to gather every American's information, that has gone too far; and there's got to be somebody who is going to stand up and say. we have to defend the Bill of Rights — and that includes the Fourth Amendment.
[CNN Graphic: "Sen. Paul On NSA Surveillance Program; Sen. Paul: NSA Surveillance 'Illegal'"]
CAMEROTA: Senator Rand Paul, we appreciate getting your perspective on New Day.
PAUL: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being here.
