MSNBC host Chris Matthews kicked off his roundtable segment on Tuesday's Hardball by denouncing as a "clown car" moment Ted Cruz's amusing "machine gun bacon" video for conservative media outlet IJReview.com.
Unfortunately for Matthews, no one else on his panel -- the Daily Mail's Francesca Chambers, NBC's Kasie Hunt, and the Weekly Standard's John McCormack -- was as stuck in the mud, agreeing among themselves it was a clever viral video to put out in the midst of a crowded primary campaign.
Finding none of his panelists to agree with him on Cruz, Matthews moved on to trash Gov. Scott Walker (R-Wis.) for saying that he didn't know for sure but would take President Obama at his word that he was a Christian. Once again, Matthews failed to get unqualified agreement from his panelists, with the Weekly Standard's McCormack giving the "charitable explanation" for Walker's remarks, noting that evangelical Christians consider genuine Christianity a matter of a personal relationship with Jesus.
What's more, McCormack hit back at Matthews by noting occasions where Hillary Clinton's camp in 2008, including Hillary herself, expressed ambivalence about Obama's religion and whether he espoused American values. No wonder Matthews groused about his panel as he took the show out into commercial break.
Here's the relevant transcript from the segment (emphases mine):
MSNBC
Hardball
August 4, 2015; 7:39 p.m. EasternCHRIS MATTHEWS: Welcome back to Hardball. It's clown car Tuesday again, and when [sic] Donald Trump sucking all the oxygen out of the GOP field, his rivals will do and say anything it seems to get some attention, some attention. Last month Lindsey Graham set his cell phone on fire after Trump gave out his personal cell phone in a campaign event in Graham's home state of South Carolina.
Rand Paul took a chain saw to the tax code as a rock 'n' roll rendition of "The Star-Spangled Banner" played in the background. And Mike Huckabee claimed that the president's nuclear agreement with Iran is quote, marching the Israelis to the door of the oven. And then yesterday, Texas senator Ted Cruz became the latest Republican contender to distinguish himself from his opponents. In a new video, produced by the conservative media outlet IJReview, Cruz demonstrates how to cook bacon, as he put it, Texas-style, wrapped around the barrel of a machine gun. Here he is.
[IJReview video clip]
MATTHEWS: Wow. Kasie Hunt is an NBC political reporter, John McCormack is senior writer for the Weekly Standard, and Francesca Chambers is White House correspondent for the Daily Mail. Kasie, I don't know how to make fun of people when they do that. Where do we go from there? What's the satire on that?That seems like it carries the satire with it. Bacon wrapped around a gun at a time we have police shootings, we have people getting killed, people shooting cops, we have murder rates in Chicago and Baltimore that are frightening. And this guy is out there enjoying his machine gun. By the way, machine guns have been outlawed since the '30s. Your thoughts.*
KASIE HUNT: Yes, I mean that's, yes, we are undergoing difficult things. On the lighter side of this, this IJReview has done this with several candidates. This is the latest in a stretch.
MATTHEWS: What's the message?
HUNT: Well, look, I think the message is he's trying to reach out to people who, you know, respond to that.
MATTHEWS: Who like machine guns.
HUNT: Who like machine guns. Who like, I mean, look, I've been hunting with Ted Cruz, I will say, full disclosure. The guy is pretty comfortable with a gun. This is not something that is out of the ordinary. But I think he'd be the first person to tell you, as he told me, it's not something that he necessarily grew up with right away. It's not something that's been incorporated into his life even though he does have a basic knowledge of how to do it. I think you're seeing him trying to reach out to that crowd.
MATTHEWS: What does this got to do with running for president, John?
JOHN McCORMACK, Weekly Standard: This has to do with campaigning in the age of the Internet. You know, IJReview, they seek to be a conservative sort of BuzzFeed. The Internet loves bacon and conservatives love guns. He put the two together and you get instant clicks. Um, I think that's all there really is to it. It's meant to be a goofy thing. I don't think it's meant to be serious or a statement about anything.
MATTHEWS: Why would it not get somebody like me to vote for him, or anybody in the middle politically? Why would it appeal to anyone?
McCORMACK: People who like guns, people who like somebody who's laid back enough to make a goofy video like this. I think to younger voters, I mean this is what IJReview --
MATTHEWS: Younger voters who are into machine guns.
McCORMACK: I don't, I think there's-- It's not a machine gun, first of all, a machine gun is fully automatic.
MATTHEWS: I thought they said it was a machine gun.
McCORMACK: I think he, it's an exaggeration.
FRANCESCA CHAMBER: It was an AR-15.
MATTHEWS: Explain. Was it bup, bup, bup, bup, bup, or do you just hold the trigger down.
CHAMBERS: It was actually not a machine gun.
MATTHEWS: So it's semi-automatic.
CHAMBERS: Rachel Maddow actually spent quite a bit of time--
MATTHEWS: Semi-automatic.
CHAMBERS: Yeah, it was an AR-15. You asked about the audiences for this, absolutely I think that you're right that it's young people. And not necessarily young people on the right. Young people of the Internet age who like viral videos and like to see bacon cooked on a gun. I think that's the audience for this. And I think, as you said earlier, Chris, that Trump is sucking all the air out of the room and so some of the candidates are getting a little bit desperate to make headlines and to get earned media, and guess what we're talking about right now? We're talking about Ted Cruz and this video and we're not talking about Donald Trump. So that's successful.
MATTHEWS: Yeah, but not positively. But you're positive about this.
CHAMBERS: Uh, I'm not necessarily saying that I'm positive about it, I'm just saying--
MATTHEWS: Well, Kasie is. You guys are all positive! You guys are, look at your hands, this is a Donald Trump thing. Eh! Isn't this great [gestures with his hands]!
CHAMBERS: I'm saying it was effective at stealing back headlines from Donald Trump. It's effective.
McCORMACK: There are 17 candidates gettting in there.
MATTHEWS: Anyway, Wisconsin governor Scott Walker also earns a seat in the clown car because he says he still isn't sure President Obama is a fellow Christian.
INTERVIEWER: Is President Obama a Christian?
WALKER: You're not going to get different answers than I said before. I said I don't know. I presume he is by his comments in the past, but I've never asked him about that. And as someone who's a believer myself, I don't presume to know if someone's beliefs about whether they follow Christ or not unless I've actually talked with them and understand that. But he said he has, so I'll take his word.
MATTHEWS: What's the answer for, Francesca? I don't know. Why do people question-- if somebody said to me, I'm Jewish, I'd say, OK, you're Jewish, I'd say, you just said so, you are. You are in this country what you say you are. That's how people accept each other's religious decision making and identity. Why would you say "I don't know, he says he is but I don't know"? What does that mean?
CHAMBERS: I think he now has to stick with the original answer that he gave. Because if Scott Walker now comes back and says, I've decided that President Obama is a Christian now, then he would look like he was flip-flopping!
MATTHEWS: What does it mean to say it originally? Why are people questioning -- there's no religious test for office in this country, it's in our Constitution -- why are people questioning each other's religion? John?
McCORMACK: I think the smart thing to say politically is just, "Yes. Next question." But the charitable interpretation of this is that Walker is saying, "I believe there's more than just the label." You've got to have some minimal level, maybe he's an evangelical who thinks it's a personal relationship with Jesus or some creedal beliefs. I don't know what it is.
The question I would ask Walker is, "What would Obama have to say to you to convince you of that?" I think that's the most charitable interpretation. You know, Hillary Clinton's gotten into trouble when she said, "I assume Obama is not a Muslim, as far as I know." So anytime you--
MATTHEWS: Why do they talk like that?!
McCORMACK: Yeah, anytime you even hint at this, you get in this trouble. I don't read anything sinister into this. Unlike, you know, Mark Penn, Hillary's chief strategist, she said in 2007 that Obama was fundamentally un-American in his thinking and values, now that's unfair. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
MATTHEWS: So this is just a questionnaire we fill out, do you really believe the guy's religion is what he says it is?
HUNT: I think that what you saw there is an example of, to a certain extent, Walker continuing to be his own political strategist and saying, you know, he took a lot of criticism for saying this the first time including from people who might have otherwise been considered in his own camp. He's obviously not taking that advice, and he's also probably concerned as being viewed as a flip-flopper. If you look at that context.
MATTHEWS, leading out to commercial break. Well, this is a thoroughly pressing roundtable so far. We're going to stick with them, though, we'll give them another shot. Up next, the odd alliance of a big-city billionaire and a self-described mama grizzly. Why Donald Trump and Sarah Palin have come together in this race for 2016.
*Matthews betrays his ignorance. Machine guns are not outlawed for civilians, but they are tightly regulated by the federal government with various regulatory and tax hurdles for owning one.
