ABC’s Jon Karl Sucks Up to ‘Kingmaker’ AOC, Tries to Soften the DSA's Hard Edges

Jorge Bonilla
August 9th, 2026 6:05 PM

Text to Speech

00:00 00:00
Font Size

There is change roiling within the Democrat Party, as it decides whether to continue to resist the ongoing socialist takeover or allow itself to be completely and totally consumed by it. From the looks of Jon Karl’s interview with Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez for ABC’s This Week with George Stephanopoulos, it appears that the Elitist Media are resigned to being Regime Media for the socialists. 

The interview began with the trending soft coverage of Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed. This led to an exchange on oil companies, and a look back at her 2018 primary win. After some more “kingmaker” chatter, the conversation shifted to the upcoming Wisconsin gubernatorial primary:

 

 

JON KARL: So, you have Wisconsin coming up next. Francesca Hong, who is the Democratic Socialist of America-supported candidate for governor. Are you -- you haven't endorsed her. Are you going to?

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: No, I haven't endorsed in that race. My focus has been in winning back the Congress, winning back the House, and positioning ourselves to have the best chance possible to win the Senate. So, I've been focused on -- on those legislative races.

KARL: What do you make of those controversial statements? I'm sure you've seen. I mean, she's -- you know, the Thanksgiving dust-up.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: She says she doesn't, you know, still believe that. But, you know, the abolished prisons, abolished police.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: Which is also positions that have been taken by a lot of the progressive candidates who have won.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: How do you get around that?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah.

KARL: I mean, those are not positions that are supported by most of --

(CROSSTALK)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Right. I mean, I think that a lot of these races, even right now, they'll have a tendency to be nationalized.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: But these races ultimately are local and all politics are local. My understanding is that -- is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate.

KARL: Yeah, she's moved away from a lot of that.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Right, she's moved away from it. And I have a local city councilman that --

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- has this saying, Woke One was crazy.

(LAUGHTER)

KARL: Woke One was crazy. OK, that’s a truth.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think that what’s important is that we have to assess what a candidate is saying now.

KARL: What was -- I mean did the movement go too far with some of those positions? I mean you -- you briefly supported the idea of defunding the police.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, you know, I think -- that during this time and during -- especially during Covid, there was a huge opening of the Overtone(SIC) Window. We were shut down. There was some of the highest unemployment rates that we have seen because of those shutdowns.

KARL: Yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think that the doors were really open in trying to entertain any and every policy that was going to get us to a better place. And I actually think that the discussions that had -- that were had in that time were quite fruitful. I think that when we talk about crime today, it’s fundamentally different than the way that we talked about crime in bringing crime down, right? And I think that we all share in the goals of having as low a crime rate as possible. I think that, you know, during lockdown, of course, rhetoric in that time is not rhetoric that we would use today. And I’m grateful that these candidates have the opportunity to present who they are to their electorate and what they’re campaigning on in this moment. 

AOC and Karl yukking it up over the craziness of “Woke One” is galling, given their respective roles in the imposition of that extraordinarily destructive cultural and political regime. Furthermore, we are reminded that Woke is not dead but merely in tactical retreat. Karl allows AOC to simply wave all of that damage away while dancing around the Hong non-endorsement. Karl seems more interested in leading AOC towards disavowal of everything that might be considered controversial from the current crop of DSA Democrats than in asking meaningful questions. In other words, Karl is more interested in performing narrative hygiene.

We see this narrative hygiene at work in the next segment on the perceived differences between socialism and communism:

 

 

KARL: But, by the way, just a quick definitional thing. What, in your mind, is the difference between socialism and communism?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think, to me, the fundamental differences -- I mean there’s -- there’s many.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: One -- the prevailing one is democracy. And I believe that Democratic Socialists are fundamentally pro-democracy. And we believe in the ballot box. We believe in respecting the outcomes of elections and governing democratically and ensuring that the ideas that -- and policies that are implemented are won through popular vote and popular opinion. And so, I think that’s why so much of what we focus on is also making sure that we are providing for the majority of Americans, guaranteeing health care, raising wages, strengthening the right to a union. And I think that that’s, at its core, what we’re about.

KARL: Are you still a member of Democratic Socialists of America?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Of the New York City chapter. Yes.

KARL: The New York City chapter. Not the national?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: No.

KARL: And what’s the difference?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: So, every DSA chapter is formed locally. And so, the New York City DSA chapter, those are folks that you know. It’s my -- it’s kind of like your local union chapter. Um, yeah.

KARL: Yes. So, because I -- and I know there was that strange moment in 2024 when they -- the national chapter like took away your endorsement.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes.

KARL: But I was looking through the DSA program, and this is the national program. I'm sure you’ve seen the document. It was adopted just a few months ago. But some of the positions here, defund the Department of Defense, close oversea military bases, abolish the police and prison system, grant amnesty to all immigrants in the U.S., replace the Supreme Court and executive judiciary with a chosen by lower -- and lower to Congress, abolish the Senate, public ownership of corporations and essential industries. I mean, those are some positions that you’re going to be hearing a lot about this fall from Republicans.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think we’re also going to be hearing a lot about Donald Trump’s commitment to getting us into a reckless war in Iran.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: His collaboration with big companies to make sure that everything from groceries to rent stay sky high. And I think that people are less interested in these academic debates, and they’re more interested in how we’re going to bring their bills down and make sure that they can afford to see a doctor.

KARL: But do you see -- I mean, are those positions you support?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: No, but I think that this is a free country.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Everyone can have all sorts of beliefs and they can organize around them. And you’re free to do what you like. And, you know, have conversations with your neighbors. But my job, as an elected official, is to guarantee health care in America. And that’s what I’m focused on, and that’s what I seek to do.

KARL: And what do you say to the moderate Democrats who say, first of all, that, you know, they are capitalists and that those positions are going to doom the Democratic Party because, again, they’re not positions that are supportive --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, I mean, of course they're free to have their economic identity as they like. And, you know, in terms of dooming the party, the idea that there's a diversity of thought in America among everyday voting people is a fundamental fact of our country. I don't think that we should be worried about what somebody somewhere believes. I think we should be focused on what our plan to improve people's lives are.

There are many instances where the people vote socialism in and are then unable to vote it out (see Venezuela, Nicaragua), but Karl lacked the intellectual curiosity to ask that question. The entire purpose of this exchange was to downplay the insanity of the DSA platform and distance AOC from it. This includes the far left’s ongoing BDS derangement.

Finally, there is the exchange on Hasan Piker. Here again, the focus is on facilitating some sort of pivot away from Piker, which AOC accomplishes via a whataboutist shift to Joe Rogan and the Democrats’ loss of young men in the 2024 election:

 

 

KARL: Another person who's been made an issue is Hasan Piker, who obviously endorsed Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan. You've been on his live stream, you know, at least a few times. He's somebody who said, you know, that America deserved 9/11. Now he backed off from that.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes. Yes. He's apologized.

KARL: But he said a lot of -- he said a lot of controversial things. Is he somebody that should have a role in the progressive movement going forward?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You know, I think when we look at our elections that have happened, we have lost young people. Much hay was made about the fact that we lost young men in the last election, and many of the same consultants that are wringing their hands today were the same ones talking about how we need to go on Joe Rogan, and we need to be not --

KARL: Right.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Not so, you know, willing to engage in cancel culture. And I think that the flip-flopping on this is a tactical debate that they may be having. I think the fact of the matter is, is that Democrats can go on Joe Rogan, Democrats can go on FOX News, Democrats have a responsibility to build a winning coalition. And young people are engaging in mediums and conversations that we have a responsibility to attend to and be responsive to.And even right now, when we look at this insurgent wave of what is happening, oftentimes when people are doing that Monday morning quarterbacking and what demographics voted where, the big one that's being ignored is the generational tidal wave, a tsunami.

KARL: I mean, you see it in the polling. It is insignificant.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And millennials are not, you know, punk kids anymore.

KARL: Yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: We're grown adults with mortgages and kids. And we -- that generation is starting to be decisive at the polls. And there is anger at being ignored, sidelined, having our economic futures mortgaged by the generations that came before us on everything from the economy to climate. And we're taking the reins.

KARL: So, I want to -- we're almost out of time, but get to your future. I'm sure you saw the poll in New Hampshire that had you as the leading candidate, leading choice for Democrats. First, are you going to run for president?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I'm focused on winning the midterms. I'm running for Congress right now.(LAUGHTER)

KARL: But, I mean, do you see this as something --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You know --

KARL: I mean, I know you said you're open to it.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, I --

KARL: Is it a realistic possibility for you?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I haven't -- well, I haven't ruled out the possibility. And I'm very humbled to the tremendous amount of support out there. I think that we have a responsibility to remain focused on the midterms and not on our individual aspirations or plans.

KARL: And running for Senate against Chuck Schumer. Is that also something that's possible?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I think that anything is possible at this juncture.

It’s worth noting that Karl mentions AOC being on Piker’s podcast but NOT Piker enthusiastically supporting AOC for president in 2028. After waving off Piker’s incendiary rhetoric, AOC fuels 2028 speculation with an “anything is possible” to questions about a presidential run or primarying Chuck Schumer. The interview ends with a soft-focus question on AOC’s announced decision to freeze her eggs. 

This interview served no journalistic purpose but was quite useful from a propaganda perspective. AOC was given an opportunity to cast herself as the apex progressive while creating the appearance of distancing herself from Abdul El-Sayed, Francesca Hong, Hasan Piker, and the DSA. Narrative hygiene on full display.

Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the aforementioned interview as aired on ABC’s This Week with George Stephanopoulos on Sunday, August 9th, 2026:

JON KARL: Back in 2018, it was a little known 28-year old bartender and Democratic socialist who ran against one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress and actually won, helping to spark the movement that we see today.Eight years later, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is arguably the leading progressive voice in America. And in a recent New Hampshire poll, the top Democratic choice for president.

And Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez joins me now. Thank you for being here.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you for having me.

KARL: Well, it’s been a huge week. What does Abdul El-Sayed’s victory in Michigan say about the future of the Democratic Party?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think that we are in a time of renewal for the Democratic Party. And it’s tremendously exciting for all of us, for the big tent of the Democratic Party. We have really an ascendance of a young, inspiring, exciting electorate, energizing wave of candidates, that I think really inject a new energy to the Democratic Party and add to the toolbox of candidates that we have to win the midterm elections hopefully in November.

KARL: And as you’ve seen progressives winning in a lot of these other primaries, it was often dismissed, people saying, oh, this is in very blue parts of the country, in big cities. But this is -- this is Michigan. I mean this is battleground Michigan. And he won. Now he has the biggest test, can he win in November? What does he have to do to win over those Democrats who opposed him?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, you know, I think that this really is a moment, not just in Michigan, but across the country, where the party is unifying. The party is unifying, and it is focused on the November elections. We understand that our priority is the working class of this country. And we have to make the case that we’re here to make people’s lives better. And the Republican Party, right now, is jacking up prices, making housing impossible to afford. And we are focused on everything from healthcare to your grocery bill and making it more affordable for working people.

KARL: You know, this week there was also a prominent Republican, I mean a very prominent Republican, who said some things about wealthy corporations profiting, effectively of fleecing Americans. It sounded a lot like what I’ve heard you said. I want to play this and see your reaction.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They’re making too much money, OK. Based on a shortage, they’re making too much money. I don’t like it. When you look at one company where they made 12 times what they made the year before, they ought to give some of that back to the public. And they better cut the retail price, the consumer price.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: Well, that was Donald Trump, obviously, talking about oil and gas companies and high gas prices. What did you make of that?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think that every day people, every day Americans, we can see the very large gap between what Trump, Donald Trump says and what Donald Trump does. And so, Donald Trump may be saying that oil companies are making too much money, but what Donald Trump is doing is starting a reckless war in Iran, having closed door meetings with oil companies before his election, saying, you know, you give me money, you give me campaign contributions, and I will do whatever you want. And so, what we have seen, everything from Supreme Court rulings, to Donald Trump’s own policy is what he is doing is jacking up the price, not just at the pump, but at everything that you buy that requires the transportation of goods.And so, he can say whatever he’d like from the Oval Office, but I think people are more looking at what he chooses to do.

KARL: But that’s a reflection of what he is seeing that people care about, what the people are thinking.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And, you know, to the president’s credit, he is -- he comes from television and he’s very responsive to public sentiment. And so, he knows what he needs to say. But again, none of that is going to lower the cost of your rent or your mortgage. None of that is going to lower the interest rates that you’re paying. None of that is going to make your grocery bill more affordable. And what we want to know, and what we want to see, is action.

KARL: All right, I want to go back in time just briefly to 2018 when you won. And you shocked -- you absolutely shocked the political world. We saw the pictures of you that night. You were, obviously, shocked that you had won. You probably don’t recall this, but I interviewed you hours later, the next morning, and let’s just play just a little bit of that.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Sure.

KARL: Judging from the reaction that we all saw of you on television, it seemed to surprise you as well.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: It did. You know, I wasn’t even checking the election results at all. I wasn’t even following the precincts coming in. We had driven straight to our little party at a little billiards spot in the Bronx, and we hopped in, and I just kind of walked into a TV set, and I looked at the screen and I saw not only the numbers, but what those numbers were. And it was a complete shock.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: So, I mean, you sound there a lot like you sound today, but I -- you’ve changed as well, right? How have you changed since you came in --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah.

KARL: As this insurgent rebel at odds with the Democratic leadership? How have you changed?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You know, I think life has a way of really weathering you and adding to your context and your experience. It humbles you, but it also emboldens you in a lot of ways.And I think it has been the greatest privilege of my life to be able to represent the working people of my congressional district.And I think some of the ways that it's changed me has been to be able to come in with so many aspirations for our country, and then to have the remarkable opportunity to be in the arena and try to make the country a better place, challenges and all.And I love that it's hard. I love that I have to and I get to engage with people from all across the country, elected officials from all across the country, to try to actually fulfill our dreams to guarantee healthcare to every American.

KARL: And your -- you continue to push for change in the Democratic Party, but you're also one of the most prominent figures in that party right now. Your endorsement is incredibly valuable.I've noticed that this time around, this election cycle, you have not endorsed against -- you've not endorsed candidates that were challenging Democratic incumbents in the House.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: And somebody took note of this, a fellow progressive wrote recently. The headline in “The Hill” was, “Today's cautious AOC would not have endorsed the AOC of 2018,” because you were obviously running against an incumbent.I mean, that's probably correct, right? What's your thinking there?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You know, I am -- I wasn't endorsed by anybody --

KARL: No.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- when I was running.

KARL: Your friends.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, just some -- just some friends. So I wasn't endorsed by -- I don't think I was endorsed by a single elected official when I was running for office.And you know, I think when I see so many of these incredible insurgent candidates that are running today, that's part of what makes me so proud of them is that they do not answer to any master. They are not beholden to any corporate interest or any party boss. And they are completely independent, which allows them to be responsive to their communities and the people that elected them.And I think that in many ways that makes our movement stronger when you have to rely on your own organizing skills. And I think that it has proven to be quite successful. And I -- I mean, I see so many of these candidates, and they remind me of that moment.

KARL: I mean, but, like, in New York, you had the candidates that were endorsed by Mayor Mamdani.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: Two of whom were challenging sitting members of Congress, powerful members of Congress, Democrats. And you decided to sit that one out.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: Is that part of wanting to work with your colleagues that are in the House? I mean, what's the --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah, you know, I think we're all in different -- you know, politics is also a workplace.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And we're all in different positions to that. I endorsed, for example, in New York, on the state level, I endorsed a slate of challengers to incumbents --

KARL: In the assembly?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- in the assembly --

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- and in the Senate. And I don't work in state government, which gives me a greater freedom to be able to do that and to assess it.

And I'm very grateful, you know, that we now have a progressive movement that doesn't -- that is in large enough numbers that, you know, it used to be that you could fit five people in a closet --

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- and that was -- that was -- that was the caucus. And now, we've grown into quite a successful movement.

KARL: So, you have Wisconsin coming up next. Francesca Hong, who is the Democratic Socialist of America-supported candidate for governor. Are you -- you haven't endorsed her. Are you going to?OCASIO-CORTEZ: 

No, I haven't endorsed in that race. My focus has been in winning back the Congress, winning back the House, and positioning ourselves to have the best chance possible to win the Senate. So, I've been focused on -- on those legislative races.

KARL: What do you make of those controversial statements? I'm sure you've seen. I mean, she's -- you know, the Thanksgiving dust-up.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: She says she doesn't, you know, still believe that. But, you know, the abolished prisons, abolished police.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: Which is also positions that have been taken by a lot of the progressive candidates who have won.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Uh-huh.

KARL: How do you get around that?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yeah.

KARL: I mean, those are not positions that are supported by most of --

(CROSSTALK)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Right. I mean, I think that a lot of these races, even right now, they'll have a tendency to be nationalized.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: But these races ultimately are local and all politics are local. My understanding is that -- is that Francesca Hong has made clear her present stances to her electorate.

KARL: Yeah, she's moved away from a lot of that.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Right, she's moved away from it. And I have a local city councilman that --

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: -- has this saying, Woke One was crazy.

(LAUGHTER)

KARL: Woke One was crazy. OK, that’s a truth.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think that what’s important is that we have to assess what a candidate is saying now.

KARL: What was -- I mean did the movement go too far with some of those positions? I mean you -- you briefly supported the idea of defunding the police.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, you know, I think -- that during this time and during -- especially during Covid, there was a huge opening of the Overtone(SIC) Window. We were shut down. There was some of the highest unemployment rates that we have seen because of those shutdowns.

KARL: Yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think that the doors were really open in trying to entertain any and every policy that was going to get us to a better place. And I actually think that the discussions that had -- that were had in that time were quite fruitful. I think that when we talk about crime today, it’s fundamentally different than the way that we talked about crime in bringing crime down, right? And I think that we all share in the goals of having as low a crime rate as possible. I think that, you know, during lockdown, of course, rhetoric in that time is not rhetoric that we would use today. And I’m grateful that these candidates have the opportunity to present who they are to their electorate and what they’re campaigning on in this moment.

KARL: Because as you know, and, obviously, the Democratic Socialists of America have -- are having quite a moment. But you know how Republicans are responding. Let me just give you a brief sampling.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA MCCLAIN: Let’s call it what it is. It’s communism.

NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS: The Commie caucus is coming to Congress.

STEVE SCALISE: Communism is on the ballot this November.

MIKE JOHNSON: We’re not going to turn this country into a communist experiment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: Well, you can kind of get a sense of the theme. And, obviously, the president has said the same thing. But, by the way, just a quick definitional thing. What, in your mind, is the difference between socialism and communism?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think, to me, the fundamental differences -- I mean there’s -- there’s many.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: One -- the prevailing one is democracy. And I believe that Democratic Socialists are fundamentally pro-democracy. And we believe in the ballot box. We believe in respecting the outcomes of elections and governing democratically and ensuring that the ideas that -- and policies that are implemented are won through popular vote and popular opinion. And so, I think that’s why so much of what we focus on is also making sure that we are providing for the majority of Americans, guaranteeing health care, raising wages, strengthening the right to a union. And I think that that’s, at its core, what we’re about.

KARL: Are you still a member of Democratic Socialists of America?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Of the New York City chapter. Yes.

KARL: The New York City chapter. Not the national?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: No.

KARL: And what’s the difference?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: So, every DSA chapter is formed locally. And so, the New York City DSA chapter, those are folks that you know. It’s my -- it’s kind of like your local union chapter. Um, yeah.

KARL: Yes. So, because I -- and I know there was that strange moment in 2024 when they -- the national chapter like took away your endorsement.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes.

KARL: But I was looking through the DSA program, and this is the national program. I'm sure you’ve seen the document. It was adopted just a few months ago. But some of the positions here, defund the Department of Defense, close oversea military bases, abolish the police and prison system, grant amnesty to all immigrants in the U.S., replace the Supreme Court and executive judiciary with a chosen by lower -- and lower to Congress, abolish the Senate, public ownership of corporations and essential industries. I mean, those are some positions that you’re going to be hearing a lot about this fall from Republicans.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And I think we’re also going to be hearing a lot about Donald Trump’s commitment to getting us into a reckless war in Iran.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: His collaboration with big companies to make sure that everything from groceries to rent stay sky high. And I think that people are less interested in these academic debates, and they’re more interested in how we’re going to bring their bills down and make sure that they can afford to see a doctor.

KARL: But do you see -- I mean, are those positions you support?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: No, but I think that this is a free country.

KARL: Yeah.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Everyone can have all sorts of beliefs and they can organize around them. And you’re free to do what you like. And, you know, have conversations with your neighbors. But my job, as an elected official, is to guarantee health care in America. And that’s what I’m focused on, and that’s what I seek to do.

KARL: And what do you say to the moderate Democrats who say, first of all, that, you know, they are capitalists and that those positions are going to doom the Democratic Party because, again, they’re not positions that are supportive --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, I mean, of course they're free to have their economic identity as they like. And, you know, in terms of dooming the party, the idea that there's a diversity of thought in America among everyday voting people is a fundamental fact of our country. I don't think that we should be worried about what somebody somewhere believes. I think we should be focused on what our plan to improve people's lives are.

KARL: Another person who's been made an issue is Hasan Piker, who obviously endorsed Abdul El-Sayed in Michigan. You've been on his live stream, you know, at least a few times. He's somebody who said, you know, that America deserved 9/11. Now he backed off from that.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes. Yes. He's apologized.

KARL: But he said a lot of -- he said a lot of controversial things. Is he somebody that should have a role in the progressive movement going forward?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You know, I think when we look at our elections that have happened, we have lost young people. Much hay was made about the fact that we lost young men in the last election, and many of the same consultants that are wringing their hands today were the same ones talking about how we need to go on Joe Rogan, and we need to be not --

KARL: Right.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Not so, you know, willing to engage in cancel culture. And I think that the flip-flopping on this is a tactical debate that they may be having. I think the fact of the matter is, is that Democrats can go on Joe Rogan, Democrats can go on FOX News, Democrats have a responsibility to build a winning coalition. And young people are engaging in mediums and conversations that we have a responsibility to attend to and be responsive to.

And even right now, when we look at this insurgent wave of what is happening, oftentimes when people are doing that Monday morning quarterbacking and what demographics voted where, the big one that's being ignored is the generational tidal wave, a tsunami.

KARL: I mean, you see it in the polling. It is insignificant.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And millennials are not, you know, punk kids anymore.

KARL: Yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: We're grown adults with mortgages and kids. And we -- that generation is starting to be decisive at the polls. And there is anger at being ignored, sidelined, having our economic futures mortgaged by the generations that came before us on everything from the economy to climate. And we're taking the reins.

KARL: So, I want to -- we're almost out of time, but get to your future. I'm sure you saw the poll in New Hampshire that had you as the leading candidate, leading choice for Democrats. First, are you going to run for president?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I'm focused on winning the midterms. I'm running for Congress right now.

(LAUGHTER)

KARL: But, I mean, do you see this as something --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: You know --

KARL: I mean, I know you said you're open to it.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, I --

KARL: Is it a realistic possibility for you?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I haven't -- well, I haven't ruled out the possibility. And I'm very humbled to the tremendous amount of support out there. I think that we have a responsibility to remain focused on the midterms and not on our individual aspirations or plans.

KARL: And running for Senate against Chuck Schumer. Is that also something that's possible?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I think that anything is possible at this juncture.

KARL: All right. And then before you go, you did have a personal announcement that you made? It was interesting to see you kind of open up and, you know, on an Instagram Live, I believe it was.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes.

KARL: So tell me, tell me what it was and why you decided to do it.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes. You know, I think it's important for us to normalize these conversations, especially in this political environment. The Trump administration has --

KARL: Remind us what the announcement was.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Yes, sure. So I have decided to start the process of freezing my eggs.

KARL: Yes.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: And in this political environment where this administration is denying reproductive care to women across the country, from abortion rights to the ability to carry out a healthy pregnancy, I think it's important for us as leaders to have these conversations and share these processes, especially for working women across the country and normalize them.

KARL: OK. All right. Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, thank you very much for being here.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you.

KARL: Let's hope to talk to you again soon.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Thank you.

KARL: And when you're ready to make that decision about 2028.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I'll let you know.

KARL: Come back and talk to us about it.

Donor Privacy Policy