Border Czar Tom Homan SCHOOLS ABC's Resident Migrant Advocate, Martha Raddatz

Jorge Bonilla
January 26th, 2025 2:31 PM

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A little over three months ago, ABC’s Martha Raddatz gave us one of the all-time moments when she tried to dismiss then-Senator JD Vance’s arguments on immigration by indicating that foreign terrorist organization El Tren de Aragua had only seized control of “a handful” of apartment complexes in Aurora, Colorado. Judging from her interview with Border Czar Tom Homan, one can reasonably infer that Raddatz learned absolutely nothing.

Homan very quickly sets the tone of the interview:

MARTHA RADDATZ: When you talk about the aperture opening, the estimates of perhaps those who have been convicted or arrested in the past, 700,000 to over 1 million, so after you do that, then you go after everybody who is there illegally.

TOM HOMAN: If you are in the country illegally, you're on the table. Because it's not okay to, you know, violate laws in this country. You got to remember- every time you enter this country illegally, you violate a crime under (8 USC §1325.) It's a crime. So if you're in the country illegally, you've got a problem. And that's why I'm hoping those who are in the country illegally who have not been ordered removed by the federal judge should leave.

Raddatz quickly shifts to full advocacy mode, with a series of questions one might expect coming from reporters on Univision or Telemundo, which are known to practice immigration advocacy journalism”. Here, Raddatz regurgitates the classic immigration fallacy that presumes all illegal immigrants come to work in the agriculture, construction, and hospitality industries:

RADDATZ: While you are emphasizing you go after national security threats, you have said “no one's off the table. If you are in the country illegally, you better be looking over your shoulder. You should be afraid and start packing now.” Is that what you're doing to get hotel workers out, or people in- working on farms, that they'll be so scared they just leave?

HOMAN: Look. I think -- if you are in the country illegally, that's not okay. It's not okay to violate the laws of this country. We have millions of people standing in line, taking the test, doing their background investigations, paying the fees that want to come in the right way.

Raddatz then honed in on the ICE directive removing sanctuary status from places such as schools and churches- an emerging media narrative, which Homan HANDLED:

RADDATZ: I want to go back to who you're deporting, aside from the long list of executive actions. The administration said it will no longer tell ICE agents they have to avoid sensitive locations including schools, hospitals, churches. Benjamin Huffman, the acting Homeland Security Secretary, said in a statement: “criminals will no longer be able to hide in America's schools and churches to avoid arrest.” What criminals are hiding in schools? Middle schools? Elementary schools? You gonna go into those?

HOMAN: How many MS-13 members are aged 14 to 17? Many of them. So, look. It's a national security threat, public safety threat, and what you need to understand is that it's a case by case. Name another agency- name another law enforcement agency that has those type of requirements that they can't walk into a school or a doctor's office or a medical campus. No other agency is held to those standards. These are well-trained officers who are allowed discretion, and when it comes to a sensitive location there’s still going to be a supervisory review. So it's not like it’s an open issue, but ICE officers should have discretion to decide if a national security threat or a public safety threat is in one of these facilities, then it should be an option for them to make the arrest.

RADDATZ: But someday you could go into those schools and grab people who are just in the country illegally.

HOMAN: On a case by case basis, depending who they are, what the circumstances are. It's never -- it's never a zero game.

RADDATZ: You know that this creates fear in the immigration -- the immigrant community. The chair of the U.S. Conference of (Catholic) Bishops’ committee said “turning places of care, healing, and solace into plans of fear, and uncertainty for those in need while endangering the trust between pastors, providers, educators and the people they serve, will not make our communities safer.”

HOMAN: Well, look. Here's what I think. If Congress has a job to do, we're enforcing the laws Congress enacted and the president signed. If they don't like it, change the law. I find it hard to believe (that) any member of Congress is telling us not to enforce the law that they enacted and they fund us to do.

RADDATZ: But opening it up to anyone who's in the country illegally, and going into schools and grabbing them, does that- kids, adults?

HOMAN: The message needs to be clear that there's consequences to entering the country illegally. If we don’t show there’s consequences, you’re never going to fix the border problem.

Raddatz shifts to the cost question regarding deportations, to which Homan responds that national security is priceless:

RADDATZ: Estimates are that there are 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country right now. How can you possibly afford to deport all of those people?

HOMAN: Well, I’ll leave it up to Congress. You know, I think Congress -- the president has a mandate. You know, this is the number one issue that people voted on. And I think Congress has a mandate to give us money we need. How much-- what price do you put on national security?

RADDATZ: More- more detention centers?

HOMAN: What price do you put on -- what price you put on all these young ladies that have been raped and murdered and burned alive? What price do you put on that? What price do you put on Laken Riley’s life, what price do you put on national security? Like I just explained, when you have a surge like this because we don't secure that border, that's when national security threats enter the country. That's when sex trafficking goes up. That's when, you know, that's when the fentanyl comes in that kills a quarter million Americans. I don't put a price on that.

Raddatz continues to press this line of questioning, trying to find spots through which to poke holes, but found none. Rather than engaging in a back and forth with Homan, she sought to advocate for the tens of millions of migrants that illegally entered into the country and push easily debunkable narratives. She learned absolutely nothing from her annihilation at the hands of JD Vance.

Click “expand” to view the full transcript of the interview as aired on ABC’s This Week on Sunday, January 26th, 2025:

ABC THIS WEEK

1/26/25

9:06 AM

MARTHA RADDATZ: One of the very first appointments Donald Trump made after winning the election in November was tapping one man to be what he calls his border czar, Tom Homan is a former border patrol agent and acting director of ICE, with decades of experience in Republican and democratic administrations. I sat down with him this week and began our conversation by asking him about the role of the U.S. military.

TOM HOMAN: We have military on the border, not only helping us with the departure flights on military planes but to help them build infrastructure. They're putting up the concertina wire. They’re down there to create a secure border and lock that border down, and DoD has helped administrations before, but not at this level. So it's a force multiplier, and it's sending a strong signal to the world: our border's closed.

RADDATZ: So is this what we will see every single day ending, in what the president has promised is millions and millions being deported?

HOMAN: Yes, but you're going to see the numbers steadily increase. The number of arrests nationwide as we open up the aperture. Right now it’s concentrated in public safety threats, national security threats. That's a smaller population. So we’re going to do this on a priority basis. That's President Trump's promise, but as that aperture opens there’ll be more arrests nationwide.

RADDATZ: When you talk about the aperture opening, the estimates of perhaps those who have been convicted or arrested in the past, 700,000 to over 1 million, so after you do that, then you go after everybody who is there illegally.

HOMAN: If you are in the country illegally, you're on the table. Because it's not okay to, you know, violate laws in this country. You got to remember- every time you enter this country illegally, you violate a crime under (8 USC §1325.) It's a crime. So if you're in the country illegally, you've got a problem. And that's why I'm hoping those who are in the country illegally who have not been ordered removed by the federal judge should leave.

RADDATZ: While you are emphasizing you go after national security threats, you have said “no one's off the table. If you are in the country illegally, you better be looking over your shoulder. You should be afraid and start packing now.” Is that what you're doing to get hotel workers out, or people in- working on farms, that they'll be so scared they just leave?

HOMAN: Look. I think -- if you are in the country illegally, that's not okay. It's not okay to violate the laws of this country. We have millions of people standing in line, taking the test, doing their background investigations, paying the fees that want to come in the right way.

RADDATZ: Let's talk about the arrests so far. Numbers released the first day were over 500, and there were reports that one was a suspected terrorist. Others were gang members. Were all of the people who were arrested on Day One as far as you know, convicted criminals or those who had been arrested before?

HOMAN: No. And let me explain that. There were collateral arrests. Where do those happen? Sanctuary cities. And this is important (that) we understand that. Sanctuary cities lock us out of the jails. So instead of ICE being able to arrest the bad gut- get the criminal in the safety and security of a jail where the officer is safe, the alien is safe, and public is safe, sanctuary cities release them back into the community which endangers the community- you’re purring a criminal alien back into the community, but when we find them, he’s going to be with others most likely. Many times you're with others. If they're in the country illegally, they're coming, too.

RADDATZ: But were these arrests all in sanctuary cities? It doesn't appear so. On the first day.

HOMAN: The collaterals? Many of them were. I don’t have the exact breakdown but, again, sanctuary cities…

RADDATZ: So the arrests in Massachusetts, in Chelsea, Massachusetts which the governor said it's great to arrest the criminals who have been convicted- but were there people taken there as well who were not convicted? 

HOMAN: I'm sure there were.

RADDATZ: Were they, as you say, collateral?

HOMAN: I’m sure they are.

RADDATZ: You talk about those numbers expanding. 500 the first day. What do you think you can get up to?

HOMAN: As many as we can get. As many if- 

RADDATZ: What can happen at this point, given your manpower?

HOMAN: Look, I think we're in the beginning stages. We're bringing more resources into this operation. As a whole of government, we're going to have DoJ assisting us, and enact- the DoD piece helping build infrastructure, helping the transportation. That takes ICE- badges and guns out of those duties and puts them on the street.

RADDATZ: I want to go back to who you're deporting, aside from the long list of executive actions. The administration said it will no longer tell ICE agents they have to avoid sensitive locations including schools, hospitals, churches. Benjamin Huffman, the acting Homeland Security Secretary, said in a statement: “criminals will no longer be able to hide in America's schools and churches to avoid arrest.” What criminals are hiding in schools? Middle schools? Elementary schools? You gonna go into those?

HOMAN: How many MS-13 members are aged 14 to 17? Many of them. So, look. It's a national security threat, public safety threat, and what you need to understand is that it's a case by case. Name another agency- name another law enforcement agency that has those type of requirements that they can't walk into a school or a doctor's office or a medical campus. No other agency is held to those standards. These are well-trained officers who are allowed discretion, and when it comes to a sensitive location there’s still going to be a supervisory review. So it's not like it’s an open issue, but ICE officers should have discretion to decide if a national security threat or a public safety threat is in one of these facilities, then it should be an option for them to make the arrest.

RADDATZ: But someday you could go into those schools and grab people who are just in the country illegally.

HOMAN: On a case by case basis, depending who they are, what the circumstances are. It's never -- it's never a zero game.

RADDATZ: You know that this creates fear in the immigration -- the immigrant community. The chair of the U.S. Conference of (Catholic) Bishops’ committee said “turning places of care, healing, and solace into plans of fear, and uncertainty for those in need while endangering the trust between pastors, providers, educators and the people they serve, will not make our communities safer.”

HOMAN: Well, look. Here's what I think. If Congress has a job to do, we're enforcing the laws Congress enacted and the president signed. If they don't like it, change the law. I find it hard to believe (that) any member of Congress is telling us not to enforce the law that they enacted and they fund us to do.

RADDATZ: But opening it up to anyone who's in the country illegally, and going into schools and grabbing them, does that- kids, adults?

HOMAN: The message needs to be clear that there's consequences to entering the country illegally. If we don’t show there’s consequences, you’re never going to fix the border problem.

RADDATZ: Estimates are that there are 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country right now. How can you possibly afford to deport all of those people?

HOMAN: Well, I’ll leave it up to Congress. You know, I think Congress -- the president has a mandate. You know, this is the number one issue that people voted on. And I think Congress has a mandate to give us money we need. How much-- what price do you put on national security?

RADDATZ: More- more detention centers?

HOMAN: What price do you put on -- what price you put on all these young ladies that have been raped and murdered and burned alive? What price do you put on that? What price do you put on Laken Riley’s life, what price do you put on national security? Like I just explained, when you have a surge like this because we don't secure that border, that's when national security threats enter the country. That's when sex trafficking goes up. That's when, you know, that's when the fentanyl comes in that kills a quarter million Americans. I don't put a price on that.

RADDATZ: And on those detention centers, do you need more beds?

HOMAN: Absolutely.

RADDATZ: I think there’s 41,000 now, 100,000. So where do you get those beds? Do you build more camps? Do you do those military installations in Texas and elsewhere?

HOMAN: A little bit of everything. We can build soft-sided facilities. We can expand our contracts to outside contractors. So yeah, we're going to need more ICE beds, at minimum of 100,000. Congress needs to come to the table quick and give us the money we need to secure that border.

RADDATZ:  Let's talk about those flights again, with the host countries. You flew all of those people back. Were all of the people arrested on the first day, for instance, repatriated? And what about those countries that won't take them back?

HOMAN: Oh, they'll take them back.

RADDATZ: And what do you mean by that?

HOMAN: We got President Trump coming to power. President Trump puts America first. Mexico didn't want the “Remain in the Mexico” program under the first administration, they did it. They didn't want to put military on the southern border. They did it. El Salvador…

Martha: How do you convince them?

HOMAN: El Salvador didn't want to take MS-13 members back. Took President Trump 48 hours to make that happen. President Trump's going to put America first, and if it doesn't, then we'll place ‘em in a third safe country.

RADDATZ: All appointments to the CBP app have been canceled. That is a legal way to claim asylum and get in the country. So what should people do who are seeking asylum?

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ: How do you do it?

HOMAN: Go to the embassy. Go to the point of entry. Do it the legal way. You shouldn't come to this country and ask to get asylum, and the first thing you do is break our laws by entering illegally.

RADDATZ: So, tell me what the definition of success is over the next six months, over the next year, by the end of the administration, what is “Mission Accomplished” here?

HOMAN: Taking as many public safety threats off the street as possible, watching illegal alien crime in the United States decrease, ending it. Deporting every illegal alien gang member in this country, including Tren de Aragua and MS-13. Making our country safe. When we see the crime rate from illegal aliens go down, that's a success. Every public safety threat removed from this country is success. Every – every – every national security threat that we find and remove from the country is a success. There's no number on it.

So, my success is going to be based on what Congress gives us. The more money, the better I’m going to do.

RADDATZ: I noticed you didn't put in that list of things that will be “Mission Accomplished” and success getting every immigrant who is in the country illegally out. Why not?

HOMAN: Because I'm – I'm being realistic. We can do what we can with the money we have. We're going to try to be efficient, but with the more money we have, the more we can accomplish that. If I don't have the money to remove that many people, and I’m not going to sit here and -- one thing I'm – no one can say I haven’t been frank in everything I've said. Our success every day is taking a public safety threat off the streets or getting a national security threat out of here.

RADDATZ: And our thanks to Tom Homan.

 

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