MSNBC’s Ana Cabrera Monday invited Jason Stanley, Yale University’s so-called “fascism expert” and the author of How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, to mouth off about why he was supposedly moving to Canada. Stanley claimed he was doing so over Columbia University’s “capitulation” to the Trump administration in cracking down on overt anti-Semitism on campus, and cynically used the fact that he’s Jewish and was raising his children as Jews to somehow back up his incoherent position.
Cabrera introduced Stanley by ignoring the details of the campus and boasting that he:
[I]s departing the hallowed Ivy League school to teach in Toronto… ‘entirely because of the political climate in the United States.’ This comes as the Trump administration threatens to withhold funding for preeminent institutions like Columbia, which capitulated to the administration over so-called security reforms, and as grad students from Columbia and Tufts are among scholars now detained by immigration enforcement after their involvement in pro-Palestinian protests or writings.
She asked Stanley if the “current political environment” was “impeding you from teaching what and how you’d want to teach?”
Stanley assured her that was “absolutely not” the case, as “Yale has… protected its scholars, unlike Columbia.” Rather: “[I]t has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with my children, and my desire to send a warning to Americans that is consonant with the work I've been doing.”
Apparently, in Stanley’s mind, taking a stand against violent and disruptive anti-Semitic demonstrations and riots on campus was not “consonant” with his self-proclaimed anti-fascist mission.
Cabrera brushed over how the “capitulations” entailed things like “new rules for protests, more security officers that can make arrests, new leadership to oversee certain academic programs like Middle East studies.” She asked him what he meant when he called that a “warning.”
Stanley responded: “[N]ever before is [sic.] the federal government intervened to put a department into receivership… And needless to say… Columbia's capitulation to this, is a grave sign about the future of academic freedom.”
Stanley seemed to think that the Trump administration exercising such influence was somehow a grave threat, but that when the Biden and Obama administrations had done much the same thing to support their positions, it was seemingly a non-issue for him.
Cabrera just took his words at face-value, though, and a short time later asked him: “You are an American citizen. Why not stay, and try to be the change you're seeking? Why not be part of the pushback to this sort of behavior?”
Stanley insisted that he would “continue to throw punches against fascism and bullies from Canada. Don't worry.” He went on:
I have two black and Jewish kids. I think my kids, actually, are more important to me than anything else. So, they're using my religion to… go after academic freedom, crushing universities, supposedly, in the name of protecting… my people…American Jews. My kids are Jewish, my kids are black. They're attacking their history. And I want to send a political message… I love America because it doesn't have kings. I don't love America cause we can punch other people in the nose… It is a brutal attack on America's freedoms… on our democratic institutions: the legal system, the courts and universities and the media… [T]he media’s been attacking universities for a decade. They've been doing Trump's work for him.
After this rant, in which Stanley managed to weaponize his own children for the purpose of his far-left politics, Cabrera showed, yet again, that the media’s problem was more like subservience to the far-left when she applauded this poisonous foolishness with the words:
Jason Stanley, let's keep in touch. Thank you very much for being on our show and providing your perspective and some expertise as well. We appreciate it.
To view the full transcript, click "expand" to read:
MSNBC’s Ana Cabrera Reports
03/31/2025
10:31 PM[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: YALE FASCISM SCHOLAR LEAVES U.S. FOR CANADA]
ANA CABRERA: A prominent Yale professor who studies fascism is leaving the U.S., amid the Trump administration's crackdown on universities and colleges. Jason Stanley, author of How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them, is departing the hallowed Ivy League school to teach in Toronto, telling a philosophy website the reason is ‘entirely because of the political climate in the United States.’
This comes as the Trump administration threatens to withhold funding for preeminent institutions like Columbia, which capitulated to the administration over so-called security reforms, and as grad students from Columbia and Tufts are among scholars now detained by immigration enforcement after their involvement in pro-Palestinian protests or writings.
Professor and author Jason Stanley joins us now. Professor, thanks for taking the time with us. You cited the current political environment in this country as why you're leaving, why you're heading to Canada. Is it impeding you from teaching what and how you’d want to teach?
JASON STANLEY, ‘HOW FASCISM WORKS’ AUTHOR: Oh, absolutely not. Yale has, to this extent, protected its scholars, unlike Columbia, who forced, for example, Katharine Frank, a prominent law professor, into early retirement.
So, it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with my children, and my desire to send a warning to Americans that is consis- consonant with the work I've been doing.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: FASCISM EXPERT SHARES STARK WARNING ABOUT U.S.]
CABRERA: You talk about Columbia submitting to the White House's demands, after the threats to withhold federal funding. I mean, some of what they agreed to are new rules for protests, more security officers that can make arrests, new leadership to oversee certain academic programs like Middle East studies. You called Columbia's capitulation a warning. How so?
STANLEY: Well- in- Americans don't really understand some of the details. They put the department- the- never before is [sic.] the federal government intervened to put a department into receivership, much less an excellent department like the Department of Middle Eastern Studies at Columbia University.
And it's not new leadership. They're going to appoint, perhaps, a non-academic. It’s someone who's, obviously, going to intervene in academic affairs. They're very serious about this. Receivership is only meant for when professors in a department dislike each other so much, they can't be in the same room together.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: YALE FASCISM SCHOLAR LEAVES U.S. FOR CANADA]
And needless to say, this- crackdown- Columbia's capitulation to this, is a grave sign about the future of academic freedom. In addition to, say, hauling people off the street and sending them to Louisiana prisons like they did at Tufts university, for co-authoring op-eds, in the student newspaper.
CABRERA: Yeah. I mean, it's Tufts, it's Columbia, Georgetown, the University of Minnesota. I mean, we keep learning of new and new cases of grad students or other academics being detained by ICE.
And I'll note that these are people who are here legally. They have permanent residence, they’re- you know- on student visas.
Secretary of state Marco Rubio said last week that these cases are just the beginning. What is the message this administration is sending, by detaining these scholars and- prioritizing this sort of a crackdown?
STANLEY: The message is that they're going to do a kind of stochastic terrorism against our country. They're going to target people one by one so that those who are in fear will shut up, essentially.
And universities are filled with fear, already. They're ceasing to make public statements, they're not banding together.
Right now, they're targeting non-citizens for, you know, writing in student newspapers. I'm sure- or, I suspect, they'll start pulling people's passports, targeting U.S. Citizens for various reasons, and- exploiting Americans’ ignorance- generally- you know- we don't know about each other's workplaces. Exploiting America's- Americans' ignorance about academic freedom.
And they're trying- they- they're trying to- and I fear they will succeed, in destroying America's higher education system, which is by far the best in the world.
CABRERA: I wonder- you know- there are probably people watching this right now thinking- well, you have a lot to say. You are an American citizen. Why not stay, and try to be the change you're seeking? Why not be part of- the pushback to this sort of behavior?
STANLEY: I will continue to throw punches against fascism and bullies from Canada. Don't worry.
I have two black and Jewish kids. I think my kids, actually, are more important to me than anything else. So, they're using my religion to crack- crush- to go after academic freedom, crushing universities, supposedly, in the name of protecting my- my people, Amer- Jews- American Jews. My kids are Jewish, my kids are black. They're attacking their history.
And I want to send a political message, as I've been doing with my work.
This comes at great personal cost. This is not some- you know- I'm taking a huge salary cut. I'm not a super-wealthy person. I'll still be well paid, but I'm taking like a 25% salary cut, removing myself from my homeland, that I love.
And I- I love America because it doesn't have kings. I don't love America cause we can punch other people in the nose.
CABRERA: And so we're seeing President Trump consolidate power, pushing to quiet dissent, pressuring law firms and universities, detaining scholars. He's also attacking the judiciary and any judges who block or question his policies. How would you describe this moment for America?
STANLEY: It is a brutal attack on America's freedoms. It's a decon- it's an attack specifically on our dem- on our democratic institutions: the legal system, the courts and universities and the media. And these institutions are, un- you know, the media’s been attacking universities for a decade. They've been doing Trump's work for him. So, that doesn't help when the democratic institutions are working against each other.
And each of these institutes- institutions, in the face of this attack on democracy and this attack on freedom, by a lead- a ruler who's completely saying he wants to be a king, and a political party that's behaving like Communist China, and lining up 100 percent against [sic.] him- In the face of this, universities are turning on each other- are saying, ‘Oh, we don't want to be in the public. We're going to hide under the table.’ So- law firms- stealing each other's clients.
So, it's not a positive development. And I'm going to continue calling it out from the University of Toronto.
CABRERA: Jason Stanley, let's keep in touch. Thank you very much for being on our show and providing your perspective and some expertise as well. We appreciate it.
