As he filled in on Alex Wagner Tonight on Thursday, MSNBC host Ayman Mohyeldin allowed his anti-Israel guest to rant so that he took a full minute from his colleague Lawrence O'Donnell's show -- a fact that O'Donnell made sure to point out as he joined.
Mohyeldin introduced the segment by recounting that Israel recently increased military operations in the West Bank, and went to Palestinian American activist Omar Baddar for reaction. The MSNBC host began by posing: "...the West Bank raids come two weeks after the United States approved an additional $20 billion in arms sales to Israel. What do you make of this military operation and escalation that we're seeing now in the occupied West Bank?"
Although Israelis have argued that the West Bank is disputed, not occupied, territory, Baddar began by claiming that Israel's presence there is illegal. He soon claimed that Israelis are "deluded" in their military strategy, and called for Israel to be restrained by other countries:
And naturally this is creating some resistance as this kid of violence always does, and now Israel is increasing its military operations, operating under the false premise that they've been deluded with for a very, very long time that you can somehow pummel Palestinians into submission if only you could kill a little bit more, steal a little bit more, and torture and imprison and besiege.
But this is really just a recipe for further and further violence as history has shown us. We need the exact opposite of this. We need the world to act to restrain Israel in order to end its occupation and recognize Palestinian rights.
In his first followup, Mohyeldin fretted that Israel will do "even worse" against the Palestinians in the West Bank than in the Gaza Strip:
What do you expect will come from this Israeli military operation? And what is the likelihood that it might actually, as you mentioned or suggested, inflame tensions in the West Bank and possibly ricochet throughout the region? If Israel feels so emboldened by what it has done in Gaza without any consequence, what is to stop them from continuing to do even worse in the West Bank?
In his response, Baddar blamed Israel's presence in Palestinian territories for the ongoing violence even though Israel has a history of repeatedly offering an independent state to the Palestinians which their leaders rejected. Here's Baddar:
...the fundamental problem that has led us to this point in the first place, which is the fact that Palestinians have been living under Israeli control without any rights for decades, and that is a recipe that is going to lead to endless violence as it has over and over again.
There is a fundamental, you know, people talk about it as if it's a slogan -- "No justice, no peace" -- but I think it's a description of basic human nature that in any situation in which there is long-lasting injustice, that peace cannot follow -- that this is going to lead to conflict. And people who are interested in resolving conflicts have to look at those underlying causes and work towards justice and equality and human rights for all.
As the time approached 10:00 p.m. Eastern, Mohyeldin failed to warn his guest they were running of time, effectively annexing the first minute of O'Donnell's The Last Word show, which was delayed from getting to its first word.
Baddar railed against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, accusing him of refusing to support a ceasefire for political reasons. Mohyeldin finally relinquished control to O'Donnell at 10:01:
MOHYELDIN: Now, it is time for The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
LAWRENCE O'DONNELL: Good evening, Ayman. Thanks. We're about a minute over time with that one. Thank you, Ayman. Thank you.
MOHYELDIN: Sorry about that.
Transcript follows:
MSNBC's Alex Wagner Tonight
August 29, 2024
9:55 p.m. Eastern
AYMAN MOHYELDIN: Omar, it's good to have you on the show. Sad that it's against these reasons, but the West Bank raids come two weeks after the United States approved an additional $20 billion in arms sales to Israel. What do you make of this military operation and escalation that we're seeing now in the occupied West Bank?
OMAR BADDAR, PALESTINIAN AMERICAN MIDDLE EAST ANALYST: Ayman, I think, just for context which I think is really important -- it's important to remember that Israel's occupation of the West Bank is illegal under international law. Israel doesn't even belong in the West Bank at all, and yet, for decades now, they've been on this project of expansion and land takeover and ethnically cleansing Palestinians and pushing them into smaller and smaller areas of the West Bank. This has been going on for a very long time, and I think that at this point Israel saw an opportunity, given the attention of the entire world being focused on Gaza, to escalate further in the West Bank.
You know, when you talk about the West Bank, we've seen more than 650 Palestinians have been killed since October to this day. Under normal circumstances, this would be a massive crisis that would grab the entire world's attention, but it is only in the shadow of far greater horrors and more than 40,000 Palestinians being killed in Gaza has this flown under the radar, and Israel has gotten away with it. And naturally this is creating some resistance as this kid of violence always does, and now Israel is increasing its military operations, operating under the false premise that they've been deluded with for a very, very long time that you can somehow pummel Palestinians into submission if only you could kill a little bit more, steal a little bit more, and torture and imprison and besiege. But this is really just a recipe for further and further violence as history has shown us. We need the exact opposite of this. We need the world to act to restrain Israel in order to end its occupation and recognize Palestinian rights. That is the recipe to a better future.
MOHYELDIN: What do you expect will come from this Israeli military operation? And what is the likelihood that it might actually, as you mentioned or suggested, inflame tensions in the West Bank and possibly ricochet throughout the region? If Israel feels so emboldened by what it has done in Gaza without any consequence, what is to stop them from continuing to do even worse in the West Bank?
BADDAR: Yeah, I think we're absolutely on the road to further escalation at this point because Israel has seen that there has been absolutely no material consequences. Certainly their image in the international community has taken a very significant hit given the scale of atrocities they have committed. But as long as they have U.S. backing in terms of military funding, I think they're happy to just proceed to take as much land as they possibly can and behave the way that they are. And the possibility for a very significant escalation whether it's in the West Bank, whether another intifada or uprising could break out -- whether it's the potential for a regional war with Lebanon and Iran as long as we are on this path, I think, is increasing day by day.
The obvious solution to all of this in the immediate present is to get a ceasefire in Gaza -- to have an end to this onslaught. And that would instantly defuse regional tensions, especially with Lebanon and with Iran. And from there we can start working to where it's much more -- to start dealing with the fundamental problem that has led us to this point in the first place, which is the fact that Palestinians have been living under Israeli control without any rights for decades, and that is a recipe that is going to lead to endless violence as it has over and over again. There is a fundamental, you know, people talk about it as if it's a slogan -- "No justice, no peace" -- but I think it's a description of basic human nature that in any situation in which there is long-lasting injustice, that peace cannot follow -- that this is going to lead to conflict. And people who are interested in resolving conflicts have to look at those underlying causes and work towards justice and equality and human rights for all. That is how we actually move the ball in a better direction than the path that we're currently on.
MOHYELDIN: So let me ask you about the ceasefire -- ceasefire negotiations to end the war obviously ongoing. It's really unclear if there is even an agreement that is possible at this point. The bombings continue in Gaza -- disease is now rampant in Gaza. Less than two weeks ago, a 10-month-old baby was confirmed to have polio -- the first known case inside the strip in almost 25 years I believe. First, do you think a ceasefire deal, as it stands, is possible? What do you think it will actually take to end this war?
BADDAR: Yeah, the obvious impediment to a ceasefire is the fact that Netanyahu is not interested in ending this war. This has been clear over and over again that, you know, even though Hamas has been relatively recalcitrant throughout this process, they ultimately buckled and agreed to a ceasefire in which they release all the hostages -- even agreeing to a temporary ceasefire. And it is Netanyahu who has found every reason possible to say no to that particular deal.
And the problem of course behind that is to say, "What is allowing Netanyahu to behave the way that he currently is?" The reason why he's continuing this war is for purely (10:00 p.m. comes) personal reasons. He's worried about his legacy and his political career if he allows this war to end without any kind of resolution. And the question is: How many more Palestinian children have to be killed before the U.S. says that enough is enough? And to actually start using its leverage -- in this case the obvious leverage -- to get Netanyahu to start respecting international law and human rights and looking out for even what American policy preferences stated are is to pull that military funding or to threaten it --
MOHYELDIN: Yeah.
BADDAR: -- in a meaningful way. One thing I want to say real quick is that if American politicians saw daily video briefings of the suffering of the people in Gaza and the children who are being killed day in and day out, they would put an end to this onslaught immediately. But the problem is that we operate in an environment in which Palestinians are -- their lives are considered secondary. Nobody is paying enough attention to them, and we put Israeli lives as being somehow more valuable, and when you operate in that dynamic, you're obviously emboldening a situation in which conflict continues.
MOHYELDIN: Omar, I really appreciate it. I know there's a lot more to discuss, but I really appreciate your time and your insights this evening. Thank you. That's our show for tonight. You can catch me back here weekends at 7 p.m. Eastern. Now, it is time for The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell. Good evening, Lawrence.
LAWRENCE O'DONNELL: Good evening, Ayman. Thanks. We're about a minute over time with that one. Thank you, Ayman. Thank you.
MOHYELDIN: Sorry about that.
