On Saturday morning, MSNBC host Ali Velshi used his eponymous show to promote the left-wing group Breaking the Silence, which is known for trying to undermine the Israeli military's actions. Velshi welcomed on Avner Gvaryahu, who recently accused the Israeli military of a "tsunami of pogroms."
Without informing his audience that the group's credibility has repeatedly been called into question by media watchdogs over the years, Velshi presented the organization as if it were a tremendous source of information about Israel that his viewers should check out. As he set up the segment, the MSNBC host made sure to play up Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's political ideology and link it to recent military actions in the West Bank:
The 48-hour incursion into the refugee camp which saw many Palestinian families fleeing their homes reflects the pattern of violence that has become characteristic of the current right-wing government in Israel, which is widely regarded as the most extreme in the country's history.
Velshi gave no hint of his guest and his group's ideological slant as he boosted its credibility:
He's the co-director of Breaking the Silence, an organization of veteran soldiers who've served in the Israeli military since the start of the Second Intifada, and who have routinely exposed to the public the reality of what it is like to enforce the occupation in the occupied West Bank. ... I should tell our viewers, you -- you sort of helped me through the West Bank and understanding what that occupation looks like on the ground.
After paying lip service to the argument that the Israeli government has the right to protect its citizens, Gvaryahu called the country's military actions "distorted" as he added:
...but I think what we're seeing and what is unfolding in Jenin and generally in the north part of the West Bank is a very distorted concept of security, and this distorted concept of security is based on the assumption that in order for the Israeli citizens living in the occupied West Bank illegally under international law to live there and to feel secure, basically Palestinians have to feel insecure.
Following up, Velshi again boosted his guest:
This is why I want everybody to meet you, right? I literally tell everyone I have this discussion with, "Go to the Middle East, and I'll set you up with Breaking the Silence and Avner to have this conversation..."
Accusing Israel of being partly to blame for a "cycle of violence," he soon added:
It's a refugee camp -- it's occupied now for more than 55 years by people and their children and their grandchildren who were removed from their houses when the state of Israel was formed, and got no recompense for that. So they are three generations of angry. The occupation creates a cycle of people who are angry who then do things that threaten the safety of Israelis who then do things to threaten the safety of Palestinians. It's a cycle that needs to break.
It was not mentioned that the Israeli military had previously withdrawn from the West Bank but had to go back in after an uprising by Arabs in 2000, or that Palestinian Arabs have repeatedly used Gaza to launch terrorist attacks after Israel withdrew in 2005.
This episode of MSNBC's Velshi show was sponsored in part by Ensure and ADT Security Services. Their contact information is linked.
Transcript follows:
MSNBC's Velshi
July 8, 2023
11:18 a.m. Eastern
ALI VELSHI: Israel's government claimed that it was conducting a counterterrorism operation, but observers say that, whether or not that's true, the Israeli government is currently deliberately intensifying an already exceedingly violent year throughout Israel and occupied Palestinian territories in the West Bank. The 48-hour incursion into the refugee camp which saw many Palestinian families fleeing their homes reflects the pattern of violence that has become characteristic of the current right-wing government in Israel, which is widely regarded as the most extreme in the country's history.
The death toll in the West Bank this year alone has been alarmingly high. According to the United Nations, at least 112 Palestinians were killed in the first five months of this year. Those numbers are on track to surpass the 146 Palestinians killed in all of 2022, which represented the highest toll in the past 15 years. Analysts who spoke with the New York Times warned that this' week's incursion, quote, "lacked any deeper strategy, and could even spur more violence and revenge attacks," end quote.
And that's exactly what followed. On Tuesday, a Palestinian man drove a vehicle into Israeli civilians in Tel Aviv, injuring at least eight people. As the situation on the ground continues to deteriorate under the leadership of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, observers warn that the region teeters on the edge of a potential Third Intifada. For more on this, I'm joined by Avner Gvaryahu. He's the co-director of Breaking the Silence, an organization of veteran soldiers who've served in the Israeli military since the start of the Second Intifada, and who have routinely exposed to the public the reality of what it is like to enforce the occupation in the occupied West Bank.
Avner, it's good to see you again. Thank you for being with us. I should tell our viewers, you -- you sort of helped me through the West Bank and understanding what that occupation looks like on the ground. And when things like this happen in Jenin, it becomes complicated for my viewers to understand. Was this an effort to get rid of militants -- what the Israeli military calls terrorists -- or was this something else? Because the things that I've heard from you that sometimes the line is blurred between actually rooting out people that are going to kill Israeli civilians and enforcing the occupation.
AVNER GVARYAHU, BREAKING THE SILENCE: Yeah, so it's great to be here and great to see you again. I mean, I think we have to be clear here. The Israeli government has not only the authority but the responsibility to protect its citizens, but I think what we're seeing and what is unfolding in Jenin and generally in the north part of the West Bank is a very distorted concept of security, and this distorted concept of security is based on the assumption that in order for the Israeli citizens living in the occupied West Bank illegally under international law to live there and to feel secure, basically Palestinians have to feel insecure. And there are different ways that Israel has been doing this, and this has been sort of MO of the Israeli military for many years.
Many remember the operations during the Second Intifada, but also in times when there are uprisings that are not as violent as the Second Intifada, the Israeli army routinely enters city centers and definitely refugee camps. But what we've seen in this last operation is an escalation. I think many have called this sort of the "Gazafication" of Jenin or the beginning of the "Gazafication" of Jenin, right, referring to the Gaza Strip where a lot of the practices that we've seen, and we've met soldiers who have served in the Gaza Strip describe similar things to what we've seen in this latest operation, obviously on a smaller scale.
But taking one area -- one of the most densely populated areas -- and basically shooing people out or making it unlivable for the people living there. That's exactly the practices that we saw in Gaza -- airstrikes just a month ago, the first airstrike in the refugee camp -- first one in 20 years, this operation 20 -- and this is a very, very dangerous reality that we see unfolding. I don't think this is bringing Israelis any security. Additionally, to what you mentioned, another Israeli was killed -- another Israeli soldier was killed and a Palestinian as well. So security this is not giving us, but definitely a promise of more and more of these operations.
VELSHI: So I -- this is why I want everybody to meet you, right? I literally tell everyone I have this discussion with, "Go to the Middle East, and I'll set you up with Breaking the Silence and Avner to have this conversation" because the narrative, as it plays out here in the United States on the ground, is that Israel needs to be secure. And that's a fact. There should be zero debate about that, A, Israel needs to be secure, B, Israel has some neighbors and some leadership among those neighbors who believe that not to be true, right? They make threats about Israel and Israeli people and Jews and being pushed into the sea. Those two things are real.
But there's this real -- there's this truth in the middle, and that is, places like Jenin -- and Gaza, for that matter -- are hell. They are terrible places to live -- often occupied in the case of Jenin. It's a refugee camp -- it's occupied now for more than 55 years by people and their children and their grandchildren who were removed from their houses when the state of Israel was formed, and got no recompense for that. So they are three generations of angry. The occupation creates a cycle of people who are angry who then do things that threaten the safety of Israelis who then do things to threaten the safety of Palestinians. It's a cycle that needs to break.
GVARYAHU: And I think on exactly that point, I was part of that cycle. I mean, I was a paratrooper -- I served exactly in those areas around Nablus and Jenin. I was a sniper -- a sergeant of a sniper's team. Part of what I did almost every night was home invasions -- what we call straw windows. We basically use a private Palestinian house as an observation point or a sniper's point. These are exactly the photos coming out of the Jenin refugee camp. And you mentioned cycles. I mean, what I've been thinking about this entire week, week and a half, especially since we've seen this operation in Jenin unfold -- I can't stop thinking about the Palestinians that I woke up in the middle of the night -- that I frightened to death, handcuffed their father, used their living room as a military post and thinking, you know, maybe one of these kids was one of the Palestinians that went and attacked soldiers.
I mean, this cycle that we can basically look at most of the Israeli governments -- but definitely under this Israeli government, the only promise that they are giving us -- their citizens and Palestinians under their control -- is more death -- is more violence. And the dangerous, dangerous steps this government has taken already in entrenching the occupation and moving forward with annexation are unfolding, I mean, this government basically backtracked on the disengagement law -- the disengagement from the Gaza Strip and the north of the West Bank where Jenin is. And this basically has opened the door for hundreds, if not thousands of settlers to settle exactly in these areas.
VELSHI: And that's happening right now. It is useful to know that there are people like you in Israel who are working toward that stopping, but, for the moment, the momentum is on the other side. Avner, thanks very much for joining us as always, and for the work you do. Avner, who is the co-director of Breaking the Silence.
