To call Michel Martin’s nearly 18-minute talk with former Wisconsin Democratic Party Chairman Ben Wikler on Thursday’s Amanpour and Company a softball interview would be to give her too much credit. Martin seemed to view himself more as a guide for Wikler to continue his book tour about how Democrats need to win in order to save democracy. While Wikler never explicitly said the word "Constitution," in the context of his federal agenda, he did claim that constitutional bodies like the House of Representatives, Electoral College, and the Supreme Court need to be radically altered or dismantled because they are how “the right has imposed” control over the country.
How Martin approached her final question was representative of how she conducted the entire interview: by simply putting the ball on the tee and letting Wikler ramble, “Well, I'm going to ask you to tell us the plan because that's the title of your book, This is the Plan. So, what's the plan?”
Wikler had a three-step plan. The first involved electing Democrats in 2026 to save democracy, “First step in the plan, recognize the country is on fire. I have a fire extinguisher on the cover of the book. The first fire in this moment is a government that is testing out ways to subvert democracy itself to stop the public from being able to choose who wields power, who holds office. And the most critical safeguard against an authoritarian, you know, all the way breakthrough in this country is actually state and local governments in 2026.”
Former Wisconsin Democratic Chairman Ben Wikler stopped by PBS last night for a T-ball interview with NPR's Michel Martin, who wondered, "Well, I'm going to ask you to tell us the plan because that's the title of your book, 'This is the Plan'. So, what's the plan?"
After… pic.twitter.com/Zcv4zU4cod— Alex Christy (@alexchristy17) August 14, 2026
After finding a newfound respect for states’ roles in administering elections, Wikler arrived at step two of his plan: electing even more Democrats in 2028, “Step two is in 2028 for people who believe in expanding democracy to win a federal trifecta, the presidency, the U.S. House, the U.S. Senate. States still matter enormously as well in that moment. But that is the one chance that we have coming up to win a unified federal government that takes this crisis seriously.”
Wikler then moved on to step three, which would require several constitutional changes, although it is unclear if Wikler even knows that, “And then step three, in 2029, everyone who volunteered, who donated, who got involved, who voted to elect that government that wants to actually end America's meltdown, all those people need to stay mobilized to press the government to actually take action. And that means ending the filibuster, banning partisan gerrymandering. I argue for proportional representation in the U.S. House, U.S. Supreme Court reform. I think term limits on the U.S. Supreme Court, so it's not kind of a locked in partisan body in the way it is right now.”
By proportion representation, Wikler means within multi-member districts. That along with SCOTUS term limits would require constitutional amendments, but Wikler was not done:
And then there's also a plan to turn the Electoral College into a kind of sideshow by getting states to enact laws that make the winner of the national popular vote the president of the United States. And while we're at it, D.C. statehood and referendum for statehood in Puerto Rico, all those policies, if you take them together, they dismantle the system of control that the right has imposed on the country over a period of decades and make every voter in this country actually have a voice in who is the U.S. House majority, who is the U.S. Senate majority, who becomes the president of the United States, and it allows Congress and the president to pass laws without having a U.S. Supreme Court that only strikes down laws and executive actions when they're done by Democrats.
According to Wikler, saving democracy means a state should possibly cast its electors for the candidate its voters did not vote for. He also advocates for unconstitutional D.C. statehood and falsely claimed the Supreme Court only strikes down Democratic laws and executive orders. Republicans have gained power through constitutional means, and Wikler does not like that, so he seeks to portray constitutional institutions as part of a rigged system that needs dismantling. Martin, however, did not offer even the slightest pushback. Instead, she simply thanked Wikler for joining her.
Here is a transcript for the August 13 show:
PBS Amanpour and Company
8/13/2026
MICHEL MARTIN: Well, I'm going to ask you to tell us the plan because that's the title of your book, This is the Plan. So, what's the plan?
BEN WIKLER: First step in the plan, recognize the country is on fire. I have a fire extinguisher on the cover of the book. The first fire in this moment is a government that is testing out ways to subvert democracy itself to stop the public from being able to choose who wields power, who holds office. And the most critical safeguard against an authoritarian, you know, all the way breakthrough in this country is actually state and local governments in 2026.
And the reason for that is the Constitution puts the control of the election system into the hands of state governments regulated by federal law, but it's states that administer elections. This has been, you know, throughout our history, the kind of readout of segregationists and white supremacists, people who tried to block, you know, anyone who didn't look like Donald Trump from being able to cast a ballot.
But right now, it means that if Donald Trump tries to seize the voting machines in Fulton County, Georgia, that it's actually state officials and can be state courts that can block those kinds of efforts. This is -- it's very clear that Trump is fantasizing about doing this. He's talking about, you know, invoking the National State of Emergency, the Insurrection Act, but state governments can be the line of defense.
So, in 2026, step one of the plan is to ensure that the people who will run the elections in 2028 are people who believe in democracy itself. And that can mean Keisha Lance Bottoms as governor of Georgia. It can mean David Crowley as governor of Wisconsin. It means secretaries of state. I mean, state supreme court justices. Those are the key decision makers that will determine whether democracy gets through this moment of extreme peril. That’s step one.
Step two is in 2028 for people who believe in expanding democracy to win a federal trifecta, the presidency, the U.S. House, the U.S. Senate. States still matter enormously as well in that moment. But that is the one chance that we have coming up to win a unified federal government that takes this crisis seriously.
And then step three, in 2029, everyone who volunteered, who donated, who got involved, who voted to elect that government that wants to actually end America's meltdown, all those people need to stay mobilized to press the government to actually take action. And that means ending the filibuster, banning partisan gerrymandering. I argue for proportional representation in the U.S. House, U.S. Supreme Court reform. I think term limits on the U.S. Supreme Court, so it's not kind of a locked in partisan body in the way it is right now.
And then there's also a plan to turn the Electoral College into a kind of sideshow by getting states to enact laws that make the winner of the national popular vote the president of the United States. And while we're at it, D.C. statehood and referendum for statehood in Puerto Rico, all those policies, if you take them together, they dismantle the system of control that the right has imposed on the country over a period of decades and make every voter in this country actually have a voice in who is the U.S. House majority, who is the U.S. Senate majority, who becomes the president of the United States, and it allows Congress and the president to pass laws without having a U.S. Supreme Court that only strikes down laws and executive actions when they're done by Democrats.
