Former CBS and NBC anchor Katie Couric unsuccessfully tried not once, not twice, but three times to get Pennsylvania Democratic Sen. John Fetterman to label President Trump as anti-democratic on Thursday’s episode of her Next Question podcast. It was just another example of former broadcast anchors and reporters confirming that they were not the down-the-middle reporters they claimed to be.
Couric’s first swing came when she wondered, “You've said that Donald Trump, in your view, is not an autocrat because his presidency is quote, ‘the product of a democratic election.’ But history has shown that even leaders who come to power through elections can still govern in anti-democratic ways. So, I have to ask, when you consider some of Donald Trump's behaviors and policies, like deploying federal forces to US cities, undermining the Department of Justice's independence, attempting to overturn the 2020 election. Does that not trouble you deeply?
After Fetterman insisted that he can still be a good Democrat and not believe that trying to convince people that democracy is in peril is not the best hill “to die on” because the recent government shutdown proves that such fearmongering is silly, Couric swung at strike two, “Do you think that Donald Trump is not conducting himself or not pushing policies though that you would consider to be anti-democratic?”
As Fetterman repeated himself about still being a good Democrat, Couric tried one more time, “No, I'm talking about Donald Trump's some of the things that he's doing. If you don't believe we're living in an autocracy, would you concede that some of the things that he is doing are clearly anti-democratic and also are potentially even unconstitutional.”
If doing unconstitutional things is anti-democratic then that is bad news for former Presidents Joe Biden and Barack Obama, who were rebuked by the Supreme Court several times during their tenures. As for Fetterman, he refused to bite, replying in part:
I don't call people fascists or Nazis or compare people to Hitler. And I think that's part of why we lost our election last year. You know, if you call the person that you might vote for, that implies that you must be a fascist or you're trying to destroy, you know, our nation, and I know and I love some of those people, and they're not doing any of those things. So that's really the thing. So and, and the vast majority of Americans chose that—an option that I did not choose and actually campaigned the entire, effectively the year for Harris and Biden after he—before he dropped out. So that's exactly where we are.
Strike three. Couric is out.
Later in the show, Fetterman was discussing the need to turn down the rhetoric in the context of Charlie Kirk’s assassination, but Couric wondered if that concern about rhetoric could also be applied to Kirk himself, “I think some people might say Charlie Kirk's rhetoric was extreme. You know, I think that's the conversation that happened. People condemned political violence, but they also felt a great deal of discomfort with his language, suggesting that these kinds of words lead to violence. I don't know, I'm just kind of sharing my observations as I saw the conversations unfold.”
Like a broken record, Fetterman insisted he is still a man of the left, but that doesn’t mean that rhetoric should lead to violence, “Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we agree that we probably didn't agree with much of what he said, but, and I think we, I'm sure we both agree that you shouldn't shoot people, you know, and you shouldn't execute them in public. And that's, I think that's two things must be true. That free speech—I'm an absolute free speech guy, and you have the right to say these things, and you definitely also have the right not to get shot by sharing your views.”
Fetterman is a Democrat who votes with his party around 90 percent of the time, but there are some in the media who keep trying to portray him as some sort of DINO. If the former broadcast anchors think that is insufficient, then how are they any different from MSNBC’s primetime hosts?
H/T to Jason Cohen of The Daily Caller.
Here is a transcript for the November 13 show:
Next Question with Katie Couric
11/13/2025
KATIE COURIC: You've said that Donald Trump, in your view, is not an autocrat because his presidency is quote, “the product of a democratic election.” But history has shown that even leaders who come to power through elections can still govern in anti-democratic ways. So, I have to ask, when you consider some of Donald Trump's behaviors and policies, like deploying federal forces to US cities, undermining the Department of Justice's independence, attempting to overturn the 2020 election. Does that not trouble you deeply?
JOHN FETTERMAN: Well, of course, I was really the tip of the spear in the 2020 election in Pennsylvania, where he claimed that it wasn't, like, a fair, safe election. Absolutely. I pushed back violently on that, and I don't support many of these things that are happening right now. I don't. I don't ever vote for those things, but now for me it's, it's like, you know, here, here we are, but I think at this point right now we are not in an autocracy, you know, we're in a democracy, and that's why they were able to shut our government down, and that doesn't mean that we appreciate what's happening and that expression, “It's not normal.” It's like, yes, it isn't normal, but that doesn't mean this is an autocracy right now and what it does mean that we have a lot of hills that we can choose to die on, but I think for me I've just been choosing some of the most difficult ones, and that's where I've been and not supporting, you know, many of these things that are happening.
COURIC: Do you think that Donald Trump is not conducting himself or not pushing policies though that you would consider to be anti-democratic?
FETTERMAN: What I'm saying is a Democrat with a 90 percent record voting Democrat. That's a fact. That's not my opinion. That's my number.
COURIC: No, I'm talking about Donald Trump's some of the things that he's doing. If you don't believe we're living in an autocracy, would you concede that some of the things that he is doing are clearly anti-democratic and also are potentially even unconstitutional.
FETTERMAN: I guess, so for me it's like, you know, we have a difference here. It's like if you believe we live in an autocracy and I don't, and I think we can both agree that we've asked, we don't agree with the vast majority of those things that's happened here right now, and I wouldn't do those things.
I wouldn't have made those same kinds of decisions for that. And, and that's fine where we are right now, a committed Democrat and we happen to have a different view of these things, you know, it's like I don't call people fascists or Nazis or compare people to Hitler. And I think that's part of why we lost our election last year. You know, if you call the person that you might vote for, that implies that you must be a fascist or you're trying to destroy, you know, our nation, and I know and I love some of those people, and they're not doing any of those things. So that's really the thing. So and, and the vast majority of Americans chose that—an option that I did not choose and actually campaigned the entire, effectively the year for Harris and Biden after he—before he dropped out. So that's exactly where we are.
…
COURIC: I think some people might say Charlie Kirk's rhetoric was extreme. You know, I think that's the conversation that happened. People condemned political violence, but they also felt a great deal of discomfort with his language, suggesting that these kinds of words lead to violence. I don't know, I'm just kind of sharing my observations as I saw the conversations unfold.
FETTERMAN: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we agree that we probably didn't agree with much of what he said, but, and I think we, I'm sure we both agree that you shouldn't shoot people, you know, and you shouldn't execute them in public. And that's, I think that's two things must be true. That free speech—I'm an absolute free speech guy, and you have the right to say these things, and you definitely also have the right not to get shot by sharing your views.
