The cast of characters that made up the Thursday edition of Deadline: White House were provided the opportunity to give MSNBC’s first response to the news that former President Donald Trump had been convicted in New York. Host Nicolle Wallace and panelists Rachel Maddow and legal analyst/former Mueller probe prosecutor Andrew Weissmann all reacted by waxing poetic about democracy’s “shining moment” and how it withstood attempts by Trump and his allies to delegitimize the rule of law.
Maddow had the first reaction, “Listen, it’s a unanimous jury verdict, unanimous on all counts. This is a definitive and, you know, this is an irreversible verdict. He can appeal. I'm sure he will appeal. But this is everything that the prosecution asked for, from a jury that by all counts took this thing very, very seriously. We counted the deliberation hours down here.”
Fun fact: MSNBC’s deliberation clock was wrong. That aside, Maddow continued, “The test here for us, as a country, is not about what happens on appeal. And is not about what happens on sentencing. The test for us now as a country is whether or not this former president and his allies will have succeeded in trying to undermine the rule of law so that people reject this as a legitimate function of the rule of law in our country. They have tried to delegitimize this judge. They have tried to delegitimize the court. They have tried to delegitimize these proceedings; they have even tried to delegitimize the laws that he's charged under.”
Having concerns about D.A. Alvin Bragg’s novel theories is not the same thing as delegitimizing “the laws.”
Still, Maddow repeated herself, “Those efforts are the test we now have as a country. The people involved in bringing this case have been threatened and intimidated and had everything brought to bear against them in a way that was designed to delegitimize the process in the eyes of the American people. It's now in the hands of the American people to decide if we will accept those efforts or whether we will stand by the rule of law and recognize this as a fair proceeding.”
Wallace launched into an ode to the prosecution, while also patting Maddow on the back, “Well, a wise woman said a few nights ago, two Mondays ago that the rule of law is mortal. It needs to be protected. It isn’t an abstract thing and today the people have names that we've come to know. They're named Joshua Steinglass, they're named Alvin Bragg, they're named Susan Hoffinger.”
Later, Weissmann tried to hail the verdict as not just a victory for the rule of law, but a foreign policy victory as well, “Jurors take it so seriously. And yes, it can be scary because of it, but, you know what, they did their job and I think that this is a testament to our joining so many other democracies in the international community who have managed to hold political leaders to account and we have shown we can do that as well in a fair process where the defendant got extremely good counsel, an incredibly fair process from this judge, in spite of his attacking the witnesses, the judge, the judge's family, the jurors.”
Further along in the program, Weissmann took a shot at the case’s critics, “Just to be clear, the attack on the rule of law is also something you have seen, which is the attack on journalism, this is all of a piece that is undermining our institutions and then flipping the script to say that somehow this is a nation in decline. No one can be happy today, but this is a day of seeing the rule of law.”
He then returned to his global perspective, “I think Rachel has it totally right that this really about our democracy in a shining moment, led by a really eminent, wonderful judge who was completely dispassionate and as we said before the verdict, this was a fair process, so you have to live with it. And that is, I think, bringing our country into the modern era. I mean, there are so many countries: England, France, Italy, Israel, Argentina, that have done all of this. And they've done it much better than we have. And, you know, we think of ourselves as this first world country that is a shining, you know, beacon on the hill. Today is an example of that.”
Towards the end of the 5:00 Eastern hour, former Clinton-era U.S. attorney Harry Litman stopped by to add, "We've been holding our breath as a country for a long time waiting for the cavalry to arrive in the form of the rule of law, and it did arrive today and it's a majestic day and we are rightly saying the system worked like clockwork and the jury was diligent and attentive and the judge was firm and gentle."
During the first 30 minutes of MSNBC’s reaction to Trump’s conviction, the network suddenly decided that attacking a judge for their family’s political beliefs is beyond the pale and that Israel's legal system makes it a model country. Time will tell if such beliefs survive the next time the network talks about Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, or the International Criminal Court.
Here is a transcript for the May 30 show:
MSNBC Deadline: White House
5/30/2024
5:08 PM ET
RACHEL MADDOW: Listen, it’s a unanimous jury verdict, unanimous on all counts. This is a definitive and, you know, this is an irreversible verdict. He can appeal. I'm sure he will appeal. But this is everything that the prosecution asked for, from a jury that by all counts took this thing very, very seriously. We counted the deliberation hours down here. The test here for us, as a country, is not about what happens on appeal. And is not about what happens on sentencing. The test for us now as a country is whether or not this former president and his allies will have succeeded in trying to undermine the rule of law so that people reject this as a legitimate function of the rule of law in our country. They have tried to delegitimize this judge. They have tried to delegitimize the court. They have tried to delegitimize these proceedings, they have even tried to delegitimize the laws that he's charged under.
Those efforts are the test we now have as a country. The people involved in bringing this case have been threatened and intimidated and had everything brought to bear against them in a way that was designed to delegitimize the process in the eyes of the American people. It's now in the hands of the American people to decide if we will accept those efforts or whether we will stand by the rule of law and recognize this as a fair proceeding.
NICOLLE WALLACE: Well, a wise woman said a few nights ago, two Mondays ago that the rule of law is mortal. It needs to be protected. It isn’t an abstract thing and today the people have names that we've come to know. They're named Joshua Steinglass, they're named Alvin Bragg, they're named Susan Hoffinger.
…
ANDREW WEISSMANN: Jurors take it so seriously. And yes, it can be scary because of it, but, you know what, they did their job and I think that this is a testament to our joining so many other democracies in the international community who have managed to hold political leaders to account and we have shown we can do that as well in a fair process where the defendant got extremely good counsel, an incredibly fair process from this judge, in spite of his attacking the witnesses, the judge, the judge's family, the jurors.
…
Just to be clear, the attack on the rule of law is also something you have seen, which is the attack on journalism, this is all of a piece that is undermining our institutions and then flipping the script to say that somehow this is a nation in decline. No one can be happy today, but this is a day of seeing the rule of law. I think Rachel has it totally right that this really about our democracy in a shining moment, led by a really eminent, wonderful judge who was completely dispassionate and as we said before the verdict, this was a fair process, so you have to live with it. And that is, I think, bringing our country into the modern era. I mean, there are so many countries: England, France, Italy, Israel, Argentina, that have done all of this. And they've done it much better than we have. And, you know, we think of ourselves as this first world country that is a shining, you know, beacon on the hill. Today is an example of that.
...
HARRY LITMAN: But, look, I want to say that the battle that Ari's referring to was always going to go forward. They'll always be a political, social reckoning. We've been holding our breath as a country for a long time waiting for the cavalry to arrive in the form of the rule of law, and it did arrive today and it's a majestic day and we are rightly saying the system worked like clockwork and the jury was diligent and attentive and the judge was firm and gentle.
