With MSNBC host Joy Reid away on Monday night, it was up to Dr. Jason Johnson to pick up the slack on The Reidout, as his panel transformed into a D.C. cocktail discussion of the “malicious, muscular Christianity” that Republicans are supposedly threatening to impose on America.
After framing the discussion by playing a clip from Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) at Saturday’s Turning Point Student Action Summit, where she said, “We should be Christian nationalists,” Johnson asked New York Times columnist Michelle Goldberg:
The moderates and the independents in this country, do you think they’re really aware of the fact that this isn't just hyperbole now, that Republicans are in position to take some of their craziest fantasies and make them law, or is it still something that most people are kind of ignoring?
Goldberg replied by saying how, when her book on the dangers of Christian nationalism was criticized as being too dire in its predictions when it was released in 2006, “Now we see people who have this ideology, that their version of a kind of malicious, muscular Christianity should be imposed on the rest of us.”
After repeating the oft-debunked claim that these Christian nationalist policies are stopping women from receiving treatment for miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies, Johnson brought up his own anecdotal experience, “I know plenty of people who are pro-life, but they‘re not happy with the Supreme Court decision. I know people who are pro-life and conservative Christians who don't necessarily like the idea of — of — of gay marriages and LGBTQ marriages being invalidated.”
The odds of any of these friends living more than 20 miles from D.C. or an ocean are astronomically low.
Funnily enough, even Ted Cruz — someone who Johnson would almost certainly describe as a Christian nationalist — has also stated his own prudential concerns with invalidating gay marriages.
Johnson then returned to the primary subject of his panel, Marjorie Taylor Greene:
Marjorie Taylor Greene is like, hey, I'm a proud white nationalist, but you look at the data about her district. Her district is 75 percent white, but it's 12 percent Hispanic, 9 percent African American, one percent Asian, three percent — uh, who — who say they are of two races or more. I mean, there are people in these districts who do not like the fact that they’re getting swept along in this white nationalist movement.
After unhelpfully clarifying that MTG claimed to be a “Christian nationalist,” which isn’t white nationalist but merely “a mostly white movement adjacent to white nationalism,” Goldberg concurred with Johnson’s main point:
I guess the question is when there's a widespread recognition that this party has become so cruel, so far out of the mainstream, so extremist and untethered from most people's ordinary experiences that there's some sort of revolt. Uh, unfortunately, though, because of gerrymandering and because of the various counter-majoritarian elements of our system — you know, just having a majority say this is not who we are is not enough.
There is a group that is “extremist and untethered from most people’s ordinary experiences” in this one-sided conversation, and — spoiler alert — it isn’t the “Christian nationalists.”
This sneak peek into liberal D.C. mixer chatter was made possible by Farmer’s Insurance and Ring. Their contact information is linked.
Click “Expand” to see the relevant transcript.
MSNBC’s The ReidOut
07/25/22
7:39:48 PM ET[Cuts to clip]
REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL) [At Turning Point USA Student Action Summit, 07/23/22]: Like, why is it that the women with the least likelihood of getting pregnant are the ones most worried about having abortions? Nobody wants to impregnate you if you look like a thumb.
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA) [At Turning Point USA Student Action Summit, 07/23/22]: We need to be the party of nationalism, and I'm a Christian and I say it proudly. We should be Christian nationalists.
[End of clip]
JASON JOHNSON: Matt Gaetz is allowed at conferences where teenagers are there? Uh, those weren't statements from your embarrassing uncle on Facebook. I don't really have those. Those are statements from two members of the government's highest legislative body during a national Republican Party conference this weekend, Turning Point.
Now the reason we show you this isn't to prove that these Trump cronies are extremists — you already know that, they’re terrible people — but to show you how the things they say actually have real consequences for those who live in their districts, who are subjected to the policies that come from this absolutely evil way of thinking.
To talk about that joining me now we have Michelle Goldberg, New York Times columnist and MSNBC political analyst, and Shermichael Singleton, one of the best-dressed guys on TV, political consultant, and host of the show ScreenShare.
Uh, look — I — I will start with you, Michelle. I'm not a fan of just outrage, right? I — I — you can show me all the terrorists on TV, all the Republicans saying terrible things. It's not new. They have been doing this for most of my lifetime. But what I do think is important is to say that, hey, these people have policy influence.
So on that end do you think that the — the sort of — eh, the moderates and the independents in this country, do you think they’re really aware of the fact that this isn't just hyperbole now, that Republicans are in position to take some of their craziest fantasies and make them law, or is it still something that most people are kind of ignoring?
MICHELLE GOLDBERG: I mean — I think it’s happened in some sense — you know, how do you go — what is the old saying about how do you go broke suddenly — er, slowly then suddenly — gradually then suddenly? This has been happening for a long time.
The subtitle of my first book which came out in 2006 was "The Rise of Christian Nationalism," and when I was talking about this movement and the danger that it might gain political power I think one of the biggest criticisms was that you're being hyperbolic or that you're being fearmongering. Now we see people who have this ideology, that their version of a kind of malicious, muscular Christianity should be imposed on the rest of us. We see those people with real power.
So that is the direct line between the Ohio abortion story that we've been talking about or the stories that we're hearing from all over the country of women being denied treatment for miscarriages, for ectopic pregnancies — you know, for pregnancies that have no chance of — uh, of viability. We're seeing already I think that the consequences of this Christian nationalist politics is having an effect on people who maybe never really thought that the abortion debate —
JOHNSON: Right.
GOLDBERG: — that the abortion debate was germane to their lives.
JOHNSON: Shermichael, I want to ask you about this. Look, I — I know plenty of people who are pro-life, but they‘re not happy with the Supreme Court decision. I know people who are pro-life and conservative Christians who don't necessarily like the idea of — of — of gay marriages and LGBTQ marriages being invalidated.
Do you think those people are a large enough demographic in America — uh, or a concerned enough demographic in America that they can be targeted, or have they already sort of picked a side in these new sort of policy battles and it doesn't make any sense trying to microtarget them anymore?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON: I mean, I guess if you were to ask are those individuals worth being targeted if they typically vote Republican, I'm not sure, Dr. Johnson, if I would say yes to that question. Because for the most part — you're a political scientist, you know this very well — those individuals, although they may not subscribe to those things, they will find other reasons to continue to typically vote Republican, to continue to continue — uh, to associate with the conservative movement or party if you will.
Now, as it turns to independent swing voters, I do think that there is some potential here to target those individuals because those folks typically aren't holistically tethered to one side or the other. They may moreso — like, have a preference for some conservative things such as the economy, capitalism, maybe they are strong militarily, but socially they’re like eh, I think some of these folks go too far. I'm open to a different argument.
Certainly, there are individuals who are independent or swing voters that lean to the left who Democrats typically just have to figure out a way to turn those individuals out. So I would certainly say it is worth looking at where those voters are, what energizes them, what their interests are, and crafting a message to target them specifically around those issues saying yeah, we know you care about these other things but do you really want to empower this with all of the negativity? I think those voters would be open to that message.
JOHNSON: I — look, they may not be full tethers — you know, sort of in the us sense — but most of them are still voting red — uh, even if they’re not in the whole red jumpsuit.
SINGLETON: Absolutely, yeah.
JOHNSON: Um, Michelle, with that in mind — you know, I wanted to — to point out something about Marjorie Taylor Greene’s commentary. It's very interesting to me, and this is also where I think — um, you know, Vice President Harris is sort of traveling around the country going to 800 different places over the course of the year makes a difference.
You do have people in these districts who do not agree with these policies. Marjorie Taylor Greene is like, hey, I'm a proud white nationalist, but you look at the data about her district. Her district is 75 percent white, but it's 12 percent Hispanic, 9 percent African American, one percent Asian, three percent — uh, who — who say they are of two races or more. I mean, there are people in these districts who do not like the fact that they’re getting swept along in this white nationalist movement.
Not just from a numbers perspective but even from a political agitation perspective, can those people be activated? I mean, there have got to be people in parts of Kansas and Texas and Ohio saying, look, if we could just get a little help with some money we'd overthrow these maniacs because we're not happy with the policies that they’re forcing down our throats.
GOLDBERG: Well I think it’s important to say — you know, Marjorie Taylor Greene identifies herself as a Christian nationalist which is obviously a mostly white movement adjacent to white nationalism, but there are also certainly Hispanics who are sympathetic to that movement, um — you know, and we see to some extent — um, groups besides white men trending towards the Republican Party because of social issues.
I guess the question is when there's a widespread recognition that this party has become so cruel, so far out of the mainstream, so extremist and untethered from most people's ordinary experiences that there's some sort of revolt. Uh, unfortunately, though, because of gerrymandering and because of the various counter-majoritarian elements of our system — you know, just having a majority say this is not who we are is not enough. These districts are made in many cases to protect, if not to protect Marjorie Taylor Greene —
JOHNSON: Right.
GOLDBERG: — to insulate a lot of these Republicans from accountability. I think that what we're seeing now is the way a party behaves when it knows that it’s somewhat protected from Democratic accountability.
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