In an exclusive interview with new Defense Secretary Ashton Carter on Tuesday's NBC Today, co-host Savannah Guthrie grilled the Pentagon chief on the Bowe Bergdahl exchange: "Do you think that the White House made a mistake in wrapping its arms around Bowe Bergdahl and saying, for example, that he served with honor and distinction, when the administration knew there were at least questions about the circumstances of him walking off the base?"
Carter tried to downplay what the administration knew ahead of time: "I don't think that anybody at that time fully knew the circumstances." Guthrie pushed back: "But wouldn't they know from debriefing other soldiers, at a minimum, that he had expressed reservations about his service, that he had walked away?"
Carter responded by citing "an investigation going on right now" and not wanting to comment further. He added: "We do have a principle, we bend over backward in favor of trying to return an American service member."
Guthrie began the exchange by pressing Carter on the Iran nuclear negotiations: "How can you trust Iran to keep a deal? They've cheated in the past, what's to say they wouldn't in the future?"
Switching topics moments later, she observed: "The new Defense Secretary faces a map that is on fire, not just an ever-more-powerful Iran, but the brutal terror group ISIS on the march in Iraq and Syria. You're known for your candor. Are we winning right now?"
Carter replied: "I think it's too early to say that we're winning, but I think we have certainly inflicted a lot of damage. And it'll take some time to inflict defeat upon ISIL....I'm confident we will win."
Guthrie then noted a major setback in the war on terror: "But American counter-terror efforts were dealt another blow last week when the government of Yemen collapsed, forcing the evacuation of the U.S. special forces that had been battling Al Qaeda's most aggressive branch, AQAP, in Yemen."
Near the end of the exchange, she wondered about Carter's willingness to stand up to the White House: "Have you had an occasion so far in your short time as secretary of defense to say, 'I'm going to state a position that you may not like, sir'?" Carter claimed: "Yeah, I certainly have. I never think about whether he's going to like what I say. I only think about whether what I'm saying to him makes sense."
Despite Carter's lackluster answers, fellow co-host Matt Lauer wrapped up the segment by proclaiming: "It is such a hard job. But in terms of credentials and intelligence, this guy has got all the tools, no question about it."
Guthrie's tough questions for Carter were markedly different from the softballs she tossed to left-wing Senator Elizabeth Warren later in the broadcast.
Here is a full transcript of Guthrie's March 31 interview with Carter:
7:15 AM ET
SAVANNAH GUTHRIE: And now to our Today exclusive, the first interview in office with the new Secretary of Defense Ashton Carter. He's the President's fourth defense secretary in just six years and he will head the fight against ISIS, Iran, and an aggressive Russia as well. Our cameras flew along with him as he returned to his high school alma mater yesterday for a speech on the future of our fighting forces. And we begin by getting his take on tonight's deadline for a nuclear deal with Iran.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: New Defense Secretary Speaks Out; Savannah Goes One-on-One With Ashton Carter]
GUTHRIE [TO ASHTON CARTER]: How can you trust Iran to keep a deal? They've cheated in the past, what's to say they wouldn't in the future?
ASHTON CARTER: Well, like any agreement, it can't be based on trust. It has to be based on verification.
GUTHRIE: What do you do if you don't get a deal? Is it back to the drawing board in terms of a military option?
CARTER: The military option certainly will remain on the table. If there is a good agreement to have, obviously, it's worth waiting for and completing the negotiations.
GUTHRIE: The new Defense Secretary faces a map that is on fire, not just an ever-more-powerful Iran, but the brutal terror group ISIS on the march in Iraq and Syria. You're known for your candor. Are we winning right now?
CARTER: I think it's too early to say that we're winning, but I think we have certainly inflicted a lot of damage. And it'll take some time to inflict defeat upon ISIL. And we're still building the coalition and we're still building the forces and that's why I'm hesitant to say we're winning. I'm confident we will win.
GUTHRIE: When you say time, do you mean years? Do you mean decades?
CARTER: It's hard to know that either. Obviously it's going to depend on how quickly we're able to build the forces that will sustain the defeat. It's the lasting nature of the defeat that's really key.
GUTHRIE: But American counter-terror efforts were dealt another blow last week when the government of Yemen collapsed, forcing the evacuation of the U.S. special forces that had been battling Al Qaeda's most aggressive branch, AQAP, in Yemen.
CARTER: We are going to continue to prosecute our counter-terrorism operations against AQAP, whatever happens on the ground there.
GUTHRIE: Are you able to do that, though, when we've pulled our special forces out?
CARTER: We have to do it in a different way. Because remember, AQAP, that particular branch that's in Yemen, is the one that is very, very much focused on attacking us and, particularly, our air travel.
GUTHRIE: The Secretary is also dealing with the aftermath of the Obama administration's controversial prisoner swap – five Taliban prisoners for Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, who last week was charged with desertion.
Do you think that the White House made a mistake in wrapping its arms around Bowe Bergdahl and saying, for example, that he served with honor and distinction, when the administration knew there were at least questions about the circumstances of him walking off the base?
CARTER: I don't think that anybody at that time fully knew the circumstances.
GUTHRIE: But wouldn't they know from debriefing other soldiers, at a minimum, that he had expressed reservations about his service, that he had walked away?
CARTER: There clearly is an investigation going on right now. I really don't want to get into that. We do have a principle, we bend over backward in favor of trying to return an American service member.
GUTHRIE: Have you had an occasion so far in your short time as secretary of defense to say, "I'm going to state a position that you may not like, sir"?
CARTER: Yeah, I certainly have. I never think about whether he's going to like what I say. I only think about whether what I'm saying to him makes sense.
GUTHRIE: I have to ask you about your swearing-in ceremony. Did you laugh or cringe when you saw the video of Vice President Biden?
CARTER: I laughed. They know each other extremely well. We're great friends of the Bidens.
GUTHRIE: Visiting Monday with troops who will deploy this summer to Iraq, Carter was thinking big about how to attract the fighting force of the future. You've had two long wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, you have young people who may or may not really have a strong, vivid memory of 9/11 to motivate them.
CARTER: These kids are different from people in my day when I was at this high school. They want to be able to experiment more, they want to try things, they don't want to go into some big, rigid institution. They want to go into one that's agile and nimble and inspiring and that's what – the Pentagon I want to make us for the future.
GUTHRIE: Interesting guy with an interesting background. And he's really open to changing some of the culture of the military to get more people to want to join.
MATT LAUER: It is such a hard job. But in terms of credentials and intelligence, this guy has got all the tools, no question about it.
GUTHRIE: Really interesting to get to talk to him.
