Kooky Conspiracist Ali Velshi: Conservatives Want to Accelerate 'End Times Fascism'

On Wednesday's The 11th Hour, MS NOW host Ali Velshi gave socialist author Naomi Klein a forum to plug her book, End Times Fascism, which promotes the theory that fascistic conservative leaders in the U.S. are trying to bring about an apocalypse, thinking they are immune to the consequences.

Velshi took a shot at President Donald Trump as he began the segment:

I don't want to speak for you, but I think it's fair to say that most of us would really rather not see any more hints of dystopian fiction appearing in newspaper headlines. But unfortunately for us, here we are on what Rachel Maddow often refers to as "Earth Two" -- what feels like a parallel dimension that came about when a morally bankrupt reality TV star wannabe dictator first took the presidency.

After playing a clip of J.D. Vance brushing off the possibility that administration actions might cause the End Times prophesied in the Bible, the MS NOW host segued to his guest:

Vance is not the only one who talks this way, by the way. In a provocative and chilling new book that's out by Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor, which argues that not only are some leaders of the global far right okay with the imminent arrival of the end times, they're actually accelerating it and even profiting from it. In End Times Fascism and the Fight for the Living World, Klein and Taylor argue that the new far right coalition of the Trump era -- tech bro billionaires, Christian extremists, ethno-nationalists -- pose a clear and present danger.

 

He added:

You argue in the book that these End Time fascists are intentionally accelerating some form of world destruction because they believe ... that "only a small, deserving group of people will survive the coming cataclysm, whether in their bunkered refuge in the sky or their bunkered corporate city or their bunkered nation state fortress against alien invaders."

After Klein noted some recent statements or actions by American Christians and Israeli Jews on the right, Velshi followed up:

There's an earthly End Times you're talking about here. In other words, they may not --  Jesus and anybody else may not be involved in this, but they may be doing things that are so damaging to us. In fact, you write in the book that these fascists are desperate to profit from conflict and catastrophe. Well, if that's true, there's lots and lots of conflict and catastrophe for them to come to profit off of right now.

Klein argued that the development of AI would take so much energy that it would hasten "climate change," and the wealth funding it would function as "WMD." She asserted:

... in a twist on the biblical tales, they're not just building their own arks, they're also causing the floods because they are, in our shared world, accelerating climate change and -- and disasters because they think their wealth will protect them. 

After Velshi followed up by asking if there is "something to the fact that they can create a terrible world and yet thrive in it?" she elaborated:

... I think that the level of wealth is so ... intoxicating ... we're talking about rewards the likes of which we've never seen that I think that they have become, in a way, a kind of deranging. They've had a deranging effect. ... We've all heard about their bunkers. And I do think that this level of wealth, what it does to the brain, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think they just think they don't have to live in the same world as us.

As Velshi injected, "Yep," she continued:

I believe they're wrong. I don't believe that they're creating wonderful lives for their children. But I think that somehow the -- the wealth has become, in the book, we say it's like a WMD in and of itself, and ... we need a disarmament movement to kind of bring these people back down to Earth so they understand that they actually have to live in our shared world.

Transcript follows:

MS NOW's The 11th Hour

September 16, 2026

11:27 p.m. Eastern

ALI VELSHI: I don't want to speak for you, but I think it's fair to say that most of us would really rather not see any more hints of dystopian fiction appearing in newspaper headlines. But unfortunately for us, here we are on what Rachel Maddow often refers to as "Earth Two" -- what feels like a parallel dimension that came about when a morally bankrupt reality TV star wannabe dictator first took the presidency.

The CEO of Anthropic, one of the biggest artificial intelligence companies in the world, warned this week that if AI companies don't slow down their development and install some guardrails, rogue AI agents might be able to take control of the internet in six to 12 months. The warning has revved up a debate about whether AI or advanced AI could escape human control and literally threaten human survival, which sounds, again, like dystopian science fiction. And yet here we are actually having that discussion. But there's something stranger happening than all of this.

These dire warnings from tech leaders are growing alongside an increase in talk in fundamentalist Christian circles about whether we are entering the so-called End Times -- you know, the biblical doomsday prophecy at the end of the world leading up to the second coming of Christ. And thanks to today's politics, this isn't a fringe idea. It's being discussed by Vice President J.D. Vance. Take a listen to what the actual Vice President of these United States said two weeks ago during an interview on a Christian podcast.

VICE PRESIDENT J.D. VANCE: While I wouldn't be shocked if we are living in the End Times, what I'm trying to focus on is doing as much of God's work as possible right now. And if that leads to the End Times, okay. And if that leads to, you know, us building a better world that thrives and survives for a very long time after I'm gone, that's great, too.

VELSHI: Wow. "That leads to the end times, okay." Vance is not the only one who talks this way, by the way. In a provocative and chilling new book that's out by Naomi Klein and Astra Taylor, which argues that not only are some leaders of the global far right okay with the imminent arrival of the end times, they're actually accelerating it and even profiting from it.

In End Times Fascism and the Fight for the Living World, Klein and Taylor argue that the new far right coalition of the Trump era -- tech bro billionaires, Christian extremists, ethno nationalists -- pose a clear and present danger. I want to talk about this. Joining me now is Naomi Klein, social activist and award-winning New York Times best selling author and my old friend. Nice to see you on the show. It's been a while.

KLEIN: Very nice to see you. Thanks for having me. Nice to -- nice to be reassured by your description of these events, you know?

VELSHI: Yeah.

KLEIN: It feels -- it feels saner coming from you.

VELSHI: But it's so crazy. It's out there. And I don't really understand when people are gaslighting us and what they really believe. You argue in the book that these End Time fascists are -- are intentionally accelerating some form of world destruction because they believe, and I'm going to quote from the book that "only a small, deserving group of people will survive the coming cataclysm, whether in their bunkered refuge in the sky or their bunkered corporate city or their bunkered nation state fortress against alien invaders." Tell me what you mean by this.

KLEIN: So this grows out of an attempt to understand what is new about this iteration of the far right and even just of the Trump administration, right? We were both around the first time he was President, and he was not behaving in some of the ways that he is behaving now, right? He was not threatening to make Canada the 51st state the first time. He was not threatening to annex Greenland. The -- the -- the kind of drive for the expansion of war in -- in the Middle East has -- has taken on apocalyptic qualities.

I mean, one of the things we could have added to your list, there are the complaints from U.S. service members, U.S. soldiers that their own commanders, as the U.S. and Israel launched their latest attack on Iran, saying that their commanders were telling them that this was the beginning of the End Times of Armageddon, and the more violent the better because, you know, rivers of blood means that the messiah is coming. But then in the Israeli government, you have more and more explicit incursions into al-Aqsa with people like Itamar Ben-Gvir.

VELSHI: Right.

KLEIN: So this is why it's like, are we being gaslit or do they mean it, right? It's the combination of rhetoric and action, right? For -- for many, many years, what reigned in Jerusalem was the so-called status quo. And you wouldn't see -- you wouldn't see Jews praying by al-Aqsa. But now, thanks to Ben-Gvir, every time he goes to what they call Temple Mount, he brings more people. The latest time, I believe he had a few thousand people with him praying in the open. And so this is very volatile.

So even though I, you know, I don't believe that they will bring about the prophecy that they're trying to accelerate. I don't believe that they're going to bring -- bring the messiah's return. They could well trigger armageddon because this is extremely inflammatory behavior. And we all, you know, don't want to be part of their apocalypse. So we do need to pay attention to it ... (inaudible).

VELSHI: Right. There's a -- there's a -- there's an earthly End Times you're talking about here. In other words, they may not --  Jesus and anybody else may not be involved in this, but they may be doing things that are so damaging to us. In fact, you write in the book that these -- these fascists are desperate to profit from conflict and catastrophe. Well, if that's true, there's lots and lots of conflict and catastrophe for them to come to profit off of right now.

KLEIN: Well, exactly. And I think we see this with the sort of private visions of a privatized so-called new Gaza. But what we're arguing in the book is that this is not a monolith. Fascism is always -- it always has strange bedfellows. It's always a coalition. It's a binding together of -- of different factions. So we have the literal religious end timers and personified by people like, like Ben-Gvir, you know. They think they're going to rebuild the third temple and bring the messiah. And then they have allies among Christian Zionists like Mike Huckabee, who has said some very inflammatory things about what constitutes, you know, greater Israel being the entire region. This is what I'm -- what I mean, like there --

VELSHI: But it's always rooted in the Bible, right? Everything Mike Huckabee says he's quoting from the Bible the whole time.

KLEIN: Exactly. But then you have a kind of a vision of a secular sort of rapture, right? So the reason why they want to accelerate the End Times is because they believe they are among the chosen. They believe that the worse things get, the better things are for the chosen in-group. And, in a way, this is mirrored by a non-religious version of what we're seeing from big tech, where there's this drive to accelerate artificial intelligence, and obviously minting its first trillionaire. It's very, very profitable, but also just kind of kissing this world goodbye.

Just, you know, Sam Altman saying, "Well, maybe the whole world will be covered in data centers." This has very material implications because these are, in the words of Donald Trump, the data centers are electricity-eating monsters. And overwhelmingly they're being powered by fossil fuels. So, once again, what we say in the book is, you know, in a twist on the biblical tales, they're not just building their own arks, they're also causing the floods because they are, in our shared world, accelerating climate change and -- and disasters because they think their wealth will protect them.

VELSHI: And there's something to that argument that their wealth will protect them, right? In our k-shaped economy, we just had numbers to show that retail sales were up, right? Because the people at the top, they might not like higher prices, but they can pay them when the people at the bottom can't. So there is something to be said that you can be on your planes, and you can be in your international community, and somehow you can have filters. If the air is bad and the climates and the air conditioners -- if the -- if it's too hot, is there something to the fact that they can create a terrible world and -- and yet thrive in it?

KLEIN: I think -- I think maybe in the short term that's true. And I think that the level of wealth is so intox -- intoxicating, right? Because we're -- we're talking about rewards the likes of which we've never seen that I think that they have become, in a way, a kind of deranging. They've had a deranging effect. Like, I don't think that they're thinking particularly clearly. I think when the prize is an IPO for -- for open AI, you know, which would -- would estimate valuations essentially the size of the entire U.S. economy. I'm not sure they're thinking all that rationally. Yes, they have bunkers. We've all heard about their bunkers. And I do think that this level of wealth, what it does to the brain, you know, maybe I'm wrong, but I think they just think they don't have to live in the same world as us.

VELSHI: Yep.

KLEIN: I believe they're wrong. I don't believe that they're creating wonderful lives for their children. But I think that somehow the -- the wealth has become, in the book, we say it's like a WMD in and of itself, and we need a -- we need a disarmament movement to kind of bring -- bring these people back down to Earth so they understand that they actually have to live in our shared world. You wouldn't think you'd have to make an argument like that, but I think it's -- it's come to that.

VELSHI: We're out of time, but I would have loved to have you, my fellow Canadian, talking about the activities of, you know, what's going on with Canada and the European Union, how normal it feels to be Canadian in these times. Good to see you, Naomi. Thanks for being on the show with us.