On Tuesday, Senator John Kennedy (R-LA) schooled ABC News legal analyst Kate Shaw during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing that included a brief spotlight on Shaw's previous remarks about Supreme Court Justices – calling some of the colleagues of Justice Elena Kagan “evil”.
Shaw, also a law professor at the University of Pennsylvania and wife of MSNBC host Chris Hayes, was invited by Senate Democrats to provide testimony on alleged executive overreach by President Trump as part of a hearing on the role of the judicial branch checking the executive.
During the hearing, Kennedy referenced a year-old comment Shaw made on her podcast Strict Scrutiny, where she described certain Supreme Court Justices as "evil." Shaw repeatedly tried to deny using the term, attributing it to a transcription error, despite the comment being captured on video:
KENNEDY: Alright, here’s what you said. You were talking about the majority opinion in Muldrow v. the City of Saint Louis. You said, “Justice Kagan, I mean, will she be able to control the opinions of future distortion by her evil colleagues. Probably not.” Who were you talking about?
SHAW: Sir, I’m sure, I’m – I’m – I’m very skeptical there’s – if there's a transcription, it was probably a transcription error. I do not think I said evil.
Kennedy’s entire cross-examination came to a head when the Senator asked her why she wasn’t owning up to her own words.
“No, you said it. Why don’t you own up to it?,” Kennedy scolded, “Which – you call some members of the Supreme Court evil. Which ones do you think are evil?”
Shaw said she needed to refresh her recollection, since she had been “very critical” of some Justices, to which Kennedy replied that her refusal to be honest was due to her embarrassment.
He also added that he is embarrassed that she teaches our children as a professor of law, an officer of the court:
KENNEDY: You know what I’m embarrassed at? That you’re teaching our kids.
SHAW: I don’t refer to Supreme Court Justices as evil –
[SCREEN WIPE]
SHAW [on Strict Scrutiny, 04/22/24]: by her evil colleagues.
The Senator refused to let up, and Shaw finally stopped trying to argue as Kennedy declared: “And you’re an officer of the court, and you’re here advising us to be respectful of federal judges. And you say there are evil members of the United States Supreme Court,”
He finished this exchange as fiery as it started, concluding with a trademark Kennedy quip from out of nowhere: “Gag me with a spoon! You’re part of what’s the problem in all of this.”
The entire transcript is below. Click "expand" to read.
X via Senator John Kennedy
June 3, 2024
Time N/ASEN. JOHN KENNEDY: On April 22, 2024, you said there are some members of the Supreme Court that are evil.
KATE SHAW [on Strict Scrutiny, 04/22/24]: Will she be able to control the opinions of future distortion by her evil colleagues? Probably not.
[BACK TO SENATE JUDICIARY HEARING]
KENNEDY: Which Justices are you talking about?
SHAW: I’ll take it at your word, Senator. I don’t recall using that word, but –
KENNEDY: Alright, here’s what you said. You were talking about the majority opinion in Muldrow v. the City of Saint Louis. You said, “Justice Kagan, I mean, will she be able to control the opinions of future distortion by her evil colleagues. Probably not.”. Who were you talking about?
SHAW: Sir, I’m sure, I’m – I’m – I’m very skeptical there’s – if there's a transcription, it was probably a transcription error. I do not think I said evil.
[SCREEN WIPE]
SHAW [on Strict Scrutiny, 04/22/24]: by her evil colleagues.
[BACK TO SENATE JUDICIARY HEARING]
KENNEDY: No, you said it. Why don’t you own up to it? Which – you call some members of the Supreme Court evil. Which ones do you think are evil?
SHAW: I would have to refresh my recollection. I’ve been very critical of some –
KENNEDY: You’re embarrassed –
SHAW: – members of the Supreme Court.
KENNEDY: – that you made that statement, aren’t you?
SHAW: I – I’m telling you, –
KENNEDY: You’re an officer of the court.
SHAW: – Senator, it doesn’t sound like something I would say.
KENNEDY: You know what I’m embarrassed at? That you’re teaching our kids.
SHAW: I don’t refer to Supreme Court Justices as evil –
[SCREEN WIPE]
SHAW [on Strict Scrutiny, 04/22/24]: by her evil colleagues.
[BACK TO SENATE JUDICIARY HEARING]
KENNEDY: You did! Right here –
SHAW: – in the classroom, sir –
KENNEDY: – on your podcast!
SHAW: In the –
KENNEDY: April 22, 2024.
SHAW: – okay, well –
KENNEDY: Big as Dallas! And you’re an officer of the court? And you’re here – advising us – to be respectful of federal judges? And you say they’re evil members of the United States Supreme Court? Gag me with a spoon. You’re part of what’s problem – the problem in all of this.
